Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[smallspy]

I don’t remember the times as it was quite a while ago but I was taking it from the North heading south. When they took away the original train which included a dining car and the overnight option with the sleeper car and replaced it with a less comfortable type of car and at different times, ridership dropped. Other transportation providers introduced more affordable alternatives that provided a more comfortable ride and a better schedule. Myself and many of my friends who were regular users stopped using it. To be fair, the widening of Hwy 11 also hurt ridership as it reduced driving time.

I think that you're confusing when there was two trains - the Northland and Northlander - and the more recent period. The Northland was the overnight train, and it ended with the VIA cutbacks of 1990. The Northlander was the train started with the former TEE equipment in the mid-1970s, and ran as a daytime only train.

As part of a cost-reduction strategy in the late 1990s and early 2000s, ONR ran the Northlander overnight in one direction, and during the daytime in the other. This was done to allow them to use one trainset. I don't remember the exact date that they changed back to a daytime run in both directions, but I seem to recall that it was around 2003 or 2004.

Leave at 6pm, and have a sleeper car.

I'm not sure how that's more attractive. If you're getting on or off of the train at any point between the two terminals, you will have a really late or really early departure or arrival.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[PinkLucy]

Those of us who lived in the north called the train the Northlander. We didn’t distinguish between Northland and Northlander. I used it regularly between 1981 until the mid 90s. We lost the dining car which was one of the best features.

When the sleeper cars were on, we left Toronto around 9 pm and arrived around 6 am. We would often go straight into work. It was awesome and allowed for a full weekend in Toronto including Sunday night dinner. I also used to take a train north in the early afternoon , have dinner on the train and arrive in the north early evening.

Heading south I think we left around mid morning. For the sleeper car, maybe around 10 pm? It was a long time ago.

One of the frustrations with the train was that it was seldom on time as priority was given to the freights. Sometimes it would be hours late so it wasn’t reliable for those going for medical travel which was a common reason for taking the train south.

 

[micheal_can]

I think that you're confusing when there was two trains - the Northland and Northlander - and the more recent period. The Northland was the overnight train, and it ended with the VIA cutbacks of 1990. The Northlander was the train started with the former TEE equipment in the mid-1970s, and ran as a daytime only train.

As part of a cost-reduction strategy in the late 1990s and early 2000s, ONR ran the Northlander overnight in one direction, and during the daytime in the other. This was done to allow them to use one trainset. I don't remember the exact date that they changed back to a daytime run in both directions, but I seem to recall that it was around 2003 or 2004.



I'm not sure how that's more attractive. If you're getting on or off of the train at any point between the two terminals, you will have a really late or really early departure or arrival.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

You live in Toronto, so, you don't understand.

Why leave early in the day?

Why did they not have service on Sundays?

 

[crs1026]

I'm not sure how that's more attractive. If you're getting on or off of the train at any point between the two terminals, you will have a really late or really early departure or arrival.

When I was back in university in Southern Ontario (and that's in another stone age) the overnight train was popular with students from Swastika and further north as they could grab an afternoon train into Toronto after Friday classes, connect to the overnight train, and be home by early morning. And be back on campus by late morning on Monday. Beyond that, I don't see the attraction. The day train was a lot more convenient.

Hard to believe that the line warranted this volume of rail service, once upon a time.....

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

You live in Toronto, so, you don't understand.

Why leave early in the day?

Why did they not have service on Sundays?

I'm sorry?

And how many times did you take the Northlander when it was running, exactly?

That there are very few overnight trains running nowadays where there used to be lots of them, and especially in corridors where there is lots of daytime service, should be more than enough proof that people would rather travel when it is convenient for them - and that happens to be during the daytime.

As to why it didn't run on Sundays - have you ever asked ONR that?

When I was back in university in Southern Ontario (and that's in another stone age) the overnight train was popular with students from Swastika and further north as they could grab an afternoon train into Toronto after Friday classes, connect to the overnight train, and be home by early morning. And be back on campus by late morning on Monday. Beyond that, I don't see the attraction. The day train was a lot more convenient.

Hard to believe that the line warranted this volume of rail service, once upon a time.....

- Paul

No doubt it was popular at that time. But that doesn't mean that it would be popular today. And considering that the only options for travel nowadays are daytime options, doesn't that go back to reinforce the point of when people want to travel?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Allandale25]

Metrolinx and Ontario Northland are partnering. News release:

Pilot Project to Attract New Ridership from Cottage Commuters
July 27, 2018: Metrolinx and Ontario Northland will be piloting a combined weekend service this August to give visitors to the Muskoka Region and North Bay a convenient, comfortable way to take transit and avoid traffic delays.

Every Friday from August 3 to September 3, the 5:35 p.m. Barrie train out of Union Station will meet with an Ontario Northland bus at Allandale Waterfront GO Station. The bus will continue on to serve Gravenhurst, Bracebridge, Huntsville and North Bay. The return bus trip will operate at the end of the weekend, whether it’s the Sunday or holiday Monday, and connect with a Toronto-bound GO train at Aurora GO Station.

One ticket will provide transportation on both the GO train and the Ontario Northland bus. Tickets can be purchased at ontarionorthland.ca. Instead of tapping a PRESTO card on the GO train, customers will simply need to show their ticket when requested.

“This service is ideal for those commuting to cottage country,” said Corina Moore, President and CEO of Ontario Northland. “We are lining up our services in an effort to create a seamless, convenient connection for our passengers.”

“This partnership with Ontario Northland is an exciting opportunity for us to help our customers get to where they need to go,” Metrolinx CEO and President Phil Verster said. “Whether they’re vacationing or visiting family, we are giving the GTHA more options to travel better, faster and easier.”

By creating connections, Metrolinx and Ontario Northland are making better use of the province’s public transportation network.

-30-

For media inquiries please contact:

Rebecca McGlynn, Director of Marketing and Communications
rebecca.mcglynn@ontarionorthland.ca
Tel: 705.472.4500 or 1.800.363.7512 ext. 529, cell 705.845.8005

Schedule from the release:

 

[dowlingm]

Metrolinx and Ontario Northland are partnering.

This is... unexpectedly good news. ONTC-Metrolinx cooperation in Barrie is something I have wished they would do for quite some time.

 

[crs1026]

Lots of well off cottage owners leave the family at the cottage for part of the summer and come back solo into the city to work for the week, but 4:40 Huntsville to Toronto Union is not going to encourage people to give up the Sunday night ratrace on 11/400.

- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

Lots of well off cottage owners leave the family at the cottage for part of the summer and come back solo into the city to work for the week, but 4:40 Huntsville to Toronto Union is not going to encourage people to give up the Sunday night ratrace on 11/400.

- Paul

At about 6 pm tonight google maps was showing a ~2 hour and 40 minute drive to Huntsville from Union Station.....this train/bus combo would take ~4 hours on the NB route.....so I am not sure how many cottagers will be paying money to get to (presumably) the Huntsville train station in 1 1/2 hours more time than driving to then have to sort out how to get to the cottage.

I used to do what you describe above (we rented the same cottage about 1/2 hour drive east of Huntsville every year.......early in my career....we would rent for just over a week Friday of one week to Sunday of the following week.....we would drive up together....i would take train down on Monday....work until Friday ....take train north and spend last couple of days at cottage) speed was not what I was looking for and I enjoyed the lazy inefficiency of the train.....but that has appeal to a very limited number of people.

 

[crs1026]

^The planned schedule may be OK as a "last resort" option, but it's not the optimal application of what ought to be a no-brainer winner.

Getting out promptly on Friday is important. Having to wait around to 17:35, and then plodding up to Barrie, may not appeal. Traffic out of downtown starts to ease by about 18:30, so if you can wait that long, you may prefer to stick with driving and not leave til after 18:00.... the end to end time may still be reasonable.

I wonder if timing the bus to meet up with the 15:40 or 16:10 departure would suit more potential riders. I know downtown-working cottagers who stage their vehicle at a GO or TTC lot on Fridays, or have their spouse meet them somewhere on TTC or GO with the car, so that they avoid the downtown traffic late in the day. Most downtown office workers have enough flexibility in their terms of employment to duck out of work a bit early on Friday, and lots do. That gets them out ahead of the worst of the congestion. The GO ride is enough time to decompress and the drive from that point isn't intolerable. If there are accidents on 400/11, which there often are, the bus isn't going to avoid that.... although not having to concentrate behind the wheel may be enough of a bonus.

As for Sundays, I can't imagine many would want to end up at Union at 22:00 needing to then take public transit to get to their city home. Most folks I know try to be home earlier than that.... or they get to bed early Sunday night at the cottage and come down early Monday morning. That 4:40 timing is just not competitive.

I guess GO/ON will find out soon enough.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

This - is - a - start.

I think I can hold my breath that this government might do good things to the ONTC.

I really think that although this may not be ideal, the schedule could work for those people who's families stay at the cottage all summer. They have their family drive them to the station and take public transit home. I could see this extended so that you can use the rest of GO lines to get home to places like Hamilton/Kitchener/Oshawa/etc.

 

[dowlingm]

Given the speed at which these things move, surely this arrangements were in train before the election?

 

[innsertnamehere]

The service looks ok for northbound service -travel time to Bracebridge is about 3hrs, which is generally time competitive. Southbound is more like 4hrs - that is rough. Drive time southbound on sunday night from Bracebridge is 2.5-3hrs to downtown. Cottage traffic is going to get lighter too over the next few years as MTO starts widening the 400. There will be HOV's up to Newmarket by the early 2020's, and Barrie will probably see a widening shortly after that..

 

[dowlingm]

The service looks ok for northbound service -travel time to Bracebridge is about 3hrs, which is generally time competitive. Southbound is more like 4hrs - that is rough. Drive time southbound on sunday night from Bracebridge is 2.5-3hrs to downtown. Cottage traffic is going to get lighter too over the next few years as MTO starts widening the 400. There will be HOV's up to Newmarket by the early 2020's, and Barrie will probably see a widening shortly after that..

Think the southbound transfer will have to happen at Allandale to make this attractive. Hopefully this is just waiting for GO's next timetable refresh.

 

[Catenary]

Given the speed at which these things move, surely this arrangements were in train before the election?

It could have been whipped up really quickly: why else would they wait until August to roll it out, and only a week or two before it started?

Think the southbound transfer will have to happen at Allandale to make this attractive. Hopefully this is just waiting for GO's next timetable refresh.

Southbound, it seems that there is quite a buffer between the bus arriving and the train departing, to deal with the variability in highway travel times. This isn't an issue northbound with the bus waiting for the more reliable train.