Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Would that require all the Provinces to agree on some Federal legislation for Toronto?
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
No. The Legislature and Parliament just need to pass identical acts agreeing to amend the constitution to give Toronto some kind of special status. It’s very simple procedurally, and has been done more than a dozen times since the constitution was repatriated in the 80s.
smallspy
Senior Member
That's.......not specifically the same plan as the Ontario Line.
Although I will admit that it achieves much of the same ends - at least in terms of offloading of GO's demand from Union Station.
The difference now is that the Ontario Line will also have a local transit aspect to it, where as the older, mainline railway design was specifically for GO service and nothing else, to the point of exclusion.
Dan
lenaitch
Senior Member
I'm unclear on what mechanism of our Constitution who allow that to happen, short of granting provincial status; and what would it apply to - Toronto, GTA, GTHA, GGHA. I'm sure every argument made by Toronto could be made by Montreal and Vancouver.
The concept of 'charter municipalities' exists in the US but I'm unclear on it.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
No, it wouldn't have anything to do with provincial status. More likely involving turning the City of Toronto into a "real" level of government, rather than a mere corporation owned by the Province of Ontario. Something along the lines of:
1. Giving Torontonians the right to have a municipal government
2. Giving Torotonains the right to a democratic municipal government
3. Granting Torontonains exclusive control of their own government and democratic institutions, and banning the Province of Ontario and other governments from engaging in electoral interference against Toronto
4. Explicitly set out areas of municipal responsibility, and banning the Province from legislating in those areas
We're talking about enshrining some pretty basic democratic rights onto the city. Dozens of US cities already have these rights enshrined by their respective state constitutions.
We'd also likely see the City given unalienable taxation rights for the first time, however this would be more politically challenging than the other points.
There's no reason why Vancover and Montreal couldn't be enshrined with the same rights. However that would have to be achieved through an agreement between Parliament Hill and their respective provincial legislatures
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Bureaucromancer
Active Member
Depends entirely on the structure chosen, there might be some options within the constitution short of province-hood, but they need something that bypasses the provincial government as well.
Something like a special purpose agency for Federal matters within the GTHA could do the trick. Similarly, theres basically no constitutional guarantee of equalization payments which can A: be used to treat Toronto and the rest of the province differently and B: is a fairly large implement (be it carrot or stick) to dis-incentivize the province from torpedoing something like a quasi charter city that remains technically a creature of the province but has direct federal dealings.
The issue is that any of those ARE constitutional changes in their own right. The feds could, and should, start working directly with municipalities now, but I wouldn't put it past a government like ours to disestablish an uncooperative municipality entirely.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Yes, these are constitutional changes... that's the whole point of this. The only way to protect the legal rights of Torotonians is to enshrine those rights in the constitution
Just to be clear, our constitution has two amending formulas. The one people are most familiar with is the 7/50 amending formula, which requires approval from the majority of provinces representing at least 50% of Canada's population. This amending formula has never been used before.
The second, simpler amending formula can be used when a constitutional amendment would only affect a single province. In that case, the Federal and Provincial government just need to pass identical acts agreeing to amend the constitution. This has been done more than a dozen times since the constitution was repatriated in the 1980s. The constitutional changes I described above, and virtually any changes affecting Toronto short of creating a new province, could be added using that amending formula.
As I mentioned before, there are already Liberal leadership candidates talking about enshrining the City of Toronto with a special status, to ensure that the Government of Ontario's actions against Toronto can never be repeated again. While they haven't explicitly mentioned a constitutional change, it would be the only way to achieve that goal. There's a non-zero chance we could see that happen once the PC government is removed from office, although I certainly wouldn't bet on it happening. Only time will tell how big of an issue it will be once the Liberal leadership race ramps up
lenaitch
Senior Member
I suppose much depends on what 'special status' means. Talk is cheap by a bunch of politician or would-be politicians; the devil would be in the details. What is being proposed sounds to me like a province-in-all-but-name which would seem to require the more all-encompassing amending method.
Comparisons to the US are imperfect because provinces don't have constitutions; Canada is not a confederation of sovereign provinces.
Comparisons to the US are imperfect because provinces don't have constitutions; Canada is not a confederation of sovereign provinces.
44 North
Senior Member
Return loops you say? I've theorized something like this in my mind, but didn't know of any real world examples. Could be interesting.
Was it even fancy? Weird would be the term I would use. Worst part for me was a few months back when one of the perpetually-rotated ministers of transportation had some dumb grin about how their secret plan, that they wouldn't show cuz it was still being concocted, may or may not be a magnet train. That's not fancy or professional. And Metrolinx being used and thrown around with a big grin also. Like a rubber doll. Weird, political, not a fan.
smallspy
Senior Member
Check this site out. http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/metro-paris/
And in advance, I apologize for the several hours of your day you are likely to lose.
Dan
yin_yang
Active Member
Allandale25
Senior Member
Industry Perspectives Op-Ed: Use evidence to inform our transit planning, not politics - Daily Commercial News
This is the first of a two-part op-ed on transit planning in Toronto. The second part can be found by clicking here. Maybe it’s a coping mechanism, a desperate search for positives from new transit proposals in hopes of staving off a despond that deepens
canada.constructconnect.com
Allandale25
Senior Member
Wow - I don't think I've seen that before. Thanks for sharing!
p_xavier
Active Member
So many words to say nothing. What evidence he proposes to use? Every decision is still made on a qualitative basis, even when using quantified data.Industry Perspectives Op-Ed: Use evidence to inform our transit planning, not politics - Daily Commercial News
This is the first of a two-part op-ed on transit planning in Toronto. The second part can be found by clicking here. Maybe it’s a coping mechanism, a desperate search for positives from new transit proposals in hopes of staving off a despond that deepens
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Very neat. I was thinking about building a similar tool for Toronto, although idk how much demand there is for that kind of thing