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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

salsa

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I really hope this "Ontario Line" will get funding like the Canada Line/REM did.

Howcome Vancouver and Montreal get funding from Canada Infrastructure Bank, Quebec Deposit and Investment Fund (the Vancouver Line in BC got funding from them, dont believe me? Look it up) etc and we are sitting here paying for this thing ourselves like suckers.

How come the largest city in Canada doesnt get investment like this? Meanwhile the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan does things like funds the Blue Jays and the poor tax (Ontario Lotto)

And furthermore why aren't big business, commercial developers and property owners in the finance district putting more pressure on the government to expedite the relief line as well as GO Transit improvements? The complete and utter paralysis on this front is directly hurting their bottom line and will eventually strangle economic growth in the core.
 

begratto

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I really hope this "Ontario Line" will get funding like the Canada Line/REM did.

Howcome Vancouver and Montreal get funding from Canada Infrastructure Bank, Quebec Deposit and Investment Fund (the Vancouver Line in BC got funding from them, dont believe me? Look it up) etc and we are sitting here paying for this thing ourselves like suckers.

How come the largest city in Canada doesnt get investment like this? Meanwhile the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan does things like funds the Blue Jays and the poor tax (Ontario Lotto)

Actually, the REM only got a loan from the Canada Infrastructure Bank. The CDPQ invests 70% of the funds (including the $'s loaned by the CIB), the Governement of Quebec the remaining 30%.
 

muller877

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The bridge is cheap but where will it go? The only possible solution I see is to demolish the current Eastern Av overpass and build a two level bridge over the Don. Maybe this can be Toronto's signature bridge LOL

Ontario line can go under Eastern Ave (the stub 2 lane one south of the Adelaide ramp), beneath Lawren Harris Square, below Bayview. Then go above grade in Corktown Commons.

I think there is enough room there for a LRT gradient to get above the tracks. Then over the river at the old Eastern Bridge (but higher). Avoids a couple of deep and expensive stops.

Throw in a cycle path on the bridge (in lieu of taking over some parkland).
 

ssiguy2

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You people need to grow up and you exemplify why nothing ever gets built in Toronto.

Be honest, if Wynne had proposed this you would be doing cartwheels but because iit's Ford all you can do is bitch. Small wonder Conservative governments have ignored Toronto transit for so long, no matter what they do it is wrong. Thinner, lighter vehicles are the best {and possibly only option} for this route due to the sharp corners and inclines but that doesn't matter, bitch all the same even though the rest of the planet has no problem with them.

As I stated earlier, a PPP is also the best financing route as it guarantees the project will come in on-time and on-budget as any overruns in time or money is 100% the responsibility of the private business and conversly it also means that the project can't be cancelled by the next government as they too would face unbearable and on-going penalties. Ford also said the line would carry up to 400,000 passengers a day and on only 15 km of track that means the stations will be at least 120 meters.
 

W. K. Lis

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From the budget:

bud19-chart1-8-en.jpg


From link:
181178

There could be one or more additional stations at Front & Bathurst and maybe the west side of Fort York or east side of Liberty Village.
 

salsa

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You people need to grow up and you exemplify why nothing ever gets built in Toronto.

Be honest, if Wynne had proposed this you would be doing cartwheels but because iit's Ford all you can do is bitch. Small wonder Conservative governments have ignored Toronto transit for so long, no matter what they do it is wrong. Thinner, lighter vehicles are the best {and possibly only option} for this route due to the sharp corners and inclines but that doesn't matter, bitch all the same even though the rest of the planet has no problem with them.

The only "bitching" I'm seeing right now is coming from you.
 

Cobra

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You people need to grow up and you exemplify why nothing ever gets built in Toronto.

Be honest, if Wynne had proposed this you would be doing cartwheels but because iit's Ford all you can do is bitch. Small wonder Conservative governments have ignored Toronto transit for so long, no matter what they do it is wrong. Thinner, lighter vehicles are the best {and possibly only option} for this route due to the sharp corners and inclines but that doesn't matter, bitch all the same even though the rest of the planet has no problem with them.

As I stated earlier, a PPP is also the best financing route as it guarantees the project will come in on-time and on-budget as any overruns in time or money is 100% the responsibility of the private business and conversly it also means that the project can't be cancelled by the next government as they too would face unbearable and on-going penalties. Ford also said the line would carry up to 400,000 passengers a day and on only 15 km of track that means the stations will be at least 120 meters.
100% agree. We need that line sooner rather than later and it seems that under this model, they can fasttrack a lot of the usual steps and get shovels faster.

I cringed reading some of Toronto council crying on Twitter calling for the status quo and defending the shorter line.

Eglinton (some relief to the Yonge line) to Exhibition GO (Union station Relief) is the best outcome for this line.
 

44 North

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That is what I gathered from the language.

If so, that would be a significant change from the municipal studies. Still, they couldn't have just thought this out of thin air, everything seems like it has Metrolinx's hands behind it.

Which, despite for all of Metrolinx's problems, is a sigh of relief with this govt.

Dunno bout a sigh of relief. We had a deal with the Prov/Metrolinx and things seemed to be working both smoothly and amicably. City studies the south portion, Metrolinx the northern section. Things would naturally tie in to the point it could potentially be all one shot construction. The City portion was done, but Mlinx reneged, didn't present their findings, then concocted something else in the dark. And we still don't know what that something is yet. That's not good faith.

As for supposedly crossing Lower Don above grade, if such is the case, I'd be keen on seeing how. Not saying it can't be done, however with Bayview, FPL, GO, existing development I really can't see it. We've all considered this in the fantasy thread years ago. So maybe we're reading too much into it and is in fact below-grade.

You people need to grow up and you exemplify why nothing ever gets built in Toronto.

Be honest, if Wynne had proposed this you would be doing cartwheels but because iit's Ford all you can do is bitch. Small wonder Conservative governments have ignored Toronto transit for so long, no matter what they do it is wrong. Thinner, lighter vehicles are the best {and possibly only option} for this route due to the sharp corners and inclines but that doesn't matter, bitch all the same even though the rest of the planet has no problem with them.

As I stated earlier, a PPP is also the best financing route as it guarantees the project will come in on-time and on-budget as any overruns in time or money is 100% the responsibility of the private business and conversly it also means that the project can't be cancelled by the next government as they too would face unbearable and on-going penalties. Ford also said the line would carry up to 400,000 passengers a day and on only 15 km of track that means the stations will be at least 120 meters.

Oh give it a rest dude. Seriously. Not one week ago you were trolling the board saying if the RL wasn't a hefty mainline train running among VIA, GO, and freight that Toronto is dumb, everyone is dumb. Now when it's the complete opposite - narrow light subway trains - you're claiming this is the best solution. How the heck did you do a complete 180 over the course of 48hrs??
 

Cobra

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There could be one or more additional stations at Front & Bathurst and maybe the west side of Fort York or east side of Liberty Village.
Liberty Village definately should get a proper station and I think it will. If one of the bid due propose it, they'd have an advantage.

As for Front & Bathurst, wouldn't that be redundant if the line does end at Exhibition GO Station?
 

alexb

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Liberty Village definately should get a proper station and I think it will. If one of the bid due propose it, they'd have an advantage.

As for Front & Bathurst, wouldn't that be redundant if the line does end at Exhibition GO Station?

Bids are not going to have different station plans, this stuff will be sorted out and finalised before it goes out for a RFQ.

As for stations put one at Bathurst/Fort York and the Exhibition one should be on Lakeshore. Let the RER stations at Exhibition and King-Liberty take care of Liberty Village.
 

BurlOak

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Ontario line can go under Eastern Ave (the stub 2 lane one south of the Adelaide ramp), beneath Lawren Harris Square, below Bayview. Then go above grade in Corktown Commons.

I think there is enough room there for a LRT gradient to get above the tracks. Then over the river at the old Eastern Bridge (but higher). Avoids a couple of deep and expensive stops.

Throw in a cycle path on the bridge (in lieu of taking over some parkland).
I think you mean the one called Sunlight Park Road?
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6554171,-79.3487176,527m/data=!3m1!1e3
I see it doing the following - starting from the east:
  1. Launch Shaft (going eastward) on South side of Eastern, east of the rail corridor.
  2. The railway is on an embankment there, so it would come through the embankment and be roughly at-grade. This is not tunneled, just regular shored construction.
  3. It would go along the south side of the parking lot, switching from partly underground to elevated.
  4. In the 250 to 275m, it would have to climb from roughly elevation -2m to 7m to clear the DVP. That a bit less than 4%.
  5. In the next 100 to 125m, it would have to climb another 2m to clear the rail line. It would actually peak a bit before this, and be on it's way down at the point of the rail line.
  6. In the next 225 to 250m it would be descending through Corktown Common.
  7. I don't think it can make it, so likely Bayview would have to ramp up maybe 1 or 2m to go over this partially buried line.
  8. In the 100 to 150m through Lawren Harris Square to Eastern, it would become fully underground - and this would likely be a TBM launch or extraction site.
It's actually quite a tight fit, and depends on the exact grades that these vehicles can handle.

The other problem heading even farther east is that the line needs to be very deep to be under the sewer of Carlaw (where it would going parallel to Carlaw). If it just went under Carlaw and continued east until Pape, it wouldn't need quite the clearance to the sewer so it could be shallower. This depth of track may mean descending from at-grade to full depth could not be done in the 450m to Carlaw. This is another close call.

EDIT:

After looking at some elevations from the plan (Steve Munro's site - https://stevemunro.ca/2018/04/29/relief-line-south-station-and-alignment-plans/ ), I am going to say that this is physically not possibly. The Line would have to be starting low under Carlaw and climbing rapidly, then having a flat spot for the Broadview Station, then climbing again to clear the Richomond Hill GO, then switching to deeply descending to go under Bayview,. I think it would probably take 8% grades to pull this off - which can't be done (5 or 6% is likely the max). Thus, I will put this idea to rest. (there still might be a small benefit in taking the line to Pape instead of Carlaw, because the elevation could be closer to the sewer when passing at right angles to it compared to going parallel to it. This would make the Queen Station and Gerrard Station shallower, and make the grade from Gerrard to Danforth more reasonable (just under 3.0% instead of 3.4%).
 
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