sixrings
Senior Member
Option 1 or branch and do option 1/3.
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Ontario Line Extension West of Ontario Place (Speculation)
- Thread starter thettctransitfanatic
- Start date
LostAlbertan
New Member
The last western relief line route I've seen officially considered would go west on Queen/King, up through Roncesvalles and hit Bloor at Dundas (see pg 29 of linked report). Is this your third option?
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20150625/2015-06-25_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study.pdf
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
Routes that follow Queen then go to Dundas West are fine for connecting together the regional system, but they increase service on corridors that are fine-grained and are well served by streetcars, while ignoring the growing density on King, Front, and Dufferin. 2035 solutions for 1935 problems.
muller877
Senior Member
Instead of 1 U DRL have they looked at 2 lines?
DRL East via Queen. Tail tracks go from Yonge to York-ish.
DRL West via King. Tail tracks go from University to Bay-ish
If/when one hits capacity (mainly in the core) the other can be extended. Plus in the west King has such a high demand for transit already
LostAlbertan
New Member
I would think that many King residents would be in the catchment area of a Queen station, but I 100% agree that a Queen line ignores much of the growing density surrounding and south of the rail corridor. Perhaps the Smart Track / expanded GO stations could alleviate that pressure somewhat.
GrayLake
New Member
DRL west has to hit the Queen/King/Roncesvales/Queensway intersection. Perfect place for a sunnyside transit hub with lakeshore west GO, lakeshore west/queensway LRT, Queen streetcars, King streetcars and DRL converging together. There is also a streecar maintenance facility already owned by TTC that can be redevelopped into a station. There is a local destination with st Joseph's Hospital. All the transit traffic from humber bay shore, south etobicoke and the lakeshore west GO has to have the option to transfer to the DRL. I think going up dufferin would be a big mistake.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Would a King Streetcar ROW Extension be not enough?
RyLucky
Active Member
Yes, although realistically the Go/CN Corridor might make more sense than Roncy.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The Waterfront West planning should also help the transit needs for the Queen/King/Roncesvalles/Queensway and Lake Shore area. See link.
RyLucky
Active Member
The trouble with the whole west side is that there isn’t as much development potential until north of eglinton, west of Humber, etc. This branch is badly needed but will be more expensive with less pay off than, say, building LRTs all around the 905.
That said, there’s a ton of underutilization along all of those options. Dufferin is a bit of a puzzle for me, because it has better and better potential for mega development as you get closer and closer to Yorkdale, but then you start competing with Line 1. I suppose you could even link up with the Sheppard Line to make a sort of loop. I suppose that’s a long way out (ie centuries). I like the idea of Dundas West becoming a hub too, and Dufferin would miss that...
That said, there’s a ton of underutilization along all of those options. Dufferin is a bit of a puzzle for me, because it has better and better potential for mega development as you get closer and closer to Yorkdale, but then you start competing with Line 1. I suppose you could even link up with the Sheppard Line to make a sort of loop. I suppose that’s a long way out (ie centuries). I like the idea of Dundas West becoming a hub too, and Dufferin would miss that...
pman
Senior Member
Brain dead.
steveintoronto
Superstar
It makes perfect sense, as it can emerge from underground to run on existing tracks *if* the entire Relief Line is part of Rapid Rail (formerly RER) as standard gauge track single deck EMU. It can then connect downtown to the distant regions all in one trip and completely by-passing (other than station interchange) the present subway. The TTC surface fleet would distribute passengers locally from stations. This could then be Rapid Rail to Bramalea one end, and York Region (Richmond Hill perhaps) the other. In doing so, it would greatly alleviate the groaning subway, and render massive improvement schemes (e.g: Bloor-Yonge) as redundant beyond tweaks and elevators, etc.
It can open in sections, but be a continuing build project, any massive sums aimed at subway improvement put into this scheme instead. And like Montreal's REM, if needed, it could be a Private Investment scheme with government participation. Why? Because there's absolutely no sign of this provincial or any other government stepping up to the plate to finance the grand scheme we need.
If Montreal can do it (as a Metro in the truest sense, full track gauge, but automated) then why can't we? Perhaps there's language difficulties translating? In that case, observe what the Aussies, UK and other English speaking nations are doing.
north-of-anything
Active Member
I don't think routing the line along the GO/CN corridor makes sense. It misses Liberty Village, the Exhibition grounds, the Dufferin Mall redevelopment, etc. in favour of a route that's already being served by not only Line 2, but also GO and the UPX.
The entire area between High Park and University doesn't need to all be served by the same metro line. A Sunnyside/Roncesvalles/King transit terminal would be a very beneficial for southern Etobicoke (and maybe even southeast Mississauga if there's a waterfront LRT extension into Port Credit). Extending the line due west instead of curving upwards would also allow for a direct link between West Queen/Humber Bay and the Don Mills corridor.
From my perspective, I don't believe the Relief Line will end up being standard gauge, if only for the ability to share facilities with Line 2. If this is the case then it would be better for Toronto's metros to fully diverge from the downtown. If necessary, another line can be drawn north-south to connect to the relief line, Line 2, and Line 5.
The entire area between High Park and University doesn't need to all be served by the same metro line. A Sunnyside/Roncesvalles/King transit terminal would be a very beneficial for southern Etobicoke (and maybe even southeast Mississauga if there's a waterfront LRT extension into Port Credit). Extending the line due west instead of curving upwards would also allow for a direct link between West Queen/Humber Bay and the Don Mills corridor.
From my perspective, I don't believe the Relief Line will end up being standard gauge, if only for the ability to share facilities with Line 2. If this is the case then it would be better for Toronto's metros to fully diverge from the downtown. If necessary, another line can be drawn north-south to connect to the relief line, Line 2, and Line 5.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
So you’re saying the Relief Line should go from the north on the east to the south on the west, and another line should go from north on the west and south in the east?
steveintoronto
Superstar
The Relief Line can't be all things to all people, and Liberty Village is already served by the King Car, soon to be a transitway as far as Liberty or more (how soon? Sooner than the Relief Line or SmartTrack), so for the limited funding and resources available to build a new line *relieving both the subway and Union Station* (the intended major purpose of the *Relief Line*) it makes absolute sense for it to be standard track gauge to connect with extant mainline tracks at either end, and thus maximize the investment for *everyone* not just locals who could/should be using surface transit to commute within the immediate vicinity.
It's bad enough that the 'Pape Entitlement' get their own doorstep delivery of service while the present subway Line 1 and 2 groan under the strain of serving the nether regions, and the 'Pape Entitlement' get their 'doorstep delivery' on everyone else's dime. It's time to look at the bigger picture, and use this 'once in a lifetime project' (this is Toronto!) to do some heavy lifting to actually save money in the long term rather than add to the cost with just local service.
Is the proposed SmartTrack Liberty station not enough for your needs along with improved King Street service?
King-Liberty SmartTrack Station
It's bad enough that the 'Pape Entitlement' get their own doorstep delivery of service while the present subway Line 1 and 2 groan under the strain of serving the nether regions, and the 'Pape Entitlement' get their 'doorstep delivery' on everyone else's dime. It's time to look at the bigger picture, and use this 'once in a lifetime project' (this is Toronto!) to do some heavy lifting to actually save money in the long term rather than add to the cost with just local service.
Is the proposed SmartTrack Liberty station not enough for your needs along with improved King Street service?
King-Liberty SmartTrack Station
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