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Ontario Line Extension West of Ontario Place (Speculation)

sixrings said:
And those stations are significantly larger than they need to be if it’s low floor. If you put a lrt in a row the station sizes matter. The ctrain runs downtown in a non car area and in the suburbs more like a go train. Maybe you just don’t like the style of how we’re building lrt (in rows) more than it is about low or high floor.
Click to expand...
The Ctrain is the one and only instance where a low floor would have genuine benefits over high floor in Canada, other than maybe iON and the existing Toronto streetcar network. This doesn't apply to most of the LRTs we're building in Canada, and especially not in suburban Toronto. This is before we get to the fact that internal circulation inside low floor trains are far worse for those in a wheelchair. You're basically stuck sitting right next to the door without an ability to for instance move to a part of the train that's less crowded.
 
ARG1 said:
The Ctrain is the one and only instance where a low floor would have genuine benefits over high floor in Canada, other than maybe iON and the existing Toronto streetcar network. This doesn't apply to most of the LRTs we're building in Canada, and especially not in suburban Toronto.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how we'd benefit running high-floor LRT for Finch, Hamilton, and Hazel McCallion.

ARG1 said:
This is before we get to the fact that internal circulation inside low floor trains are far worse for those in a wheelchair. You're basically stuck sitting right next to the door without an ability to for instance move to a part of the train that's less crowded.
Click to expand...
That's a good point - you see lots of wheelchairs wandering up and down on subway trains - and weaving around the poles.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7110322212317482283
 
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nfitz said:
I'm not sure how we'd benefit running high-floor LRT for Finch, Hamilton, and Hazel McCallion.
Click to expand...
I forgot about Hamilton. My point is it was less of a case of we'd benefit of high floor on those lines, and more that there aren't that many benefits of using low floor on those routes, other than maybe MCC station. Low floor really shines when the streetcar tracks are located on the side of the road, and when the station needs to be properly integrated with the existing streetscape. The moment you put the tram tracks in the middle of the road, the only thing the floor height changes is how far from the intersection the station should be placed.
nfitz said:
That's a good point - you see lots of wheelchairs wandering up and down on subway trains - and weaving around the poles.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7110322212317482283
Click to expand...
I get you're being facetious, but it does help for those in wheelchairs to have the freedom of movement and not feel like a second class citizen stuck to one "designated spot".
 
Others have proposed similar routes, and mine is nothing groundbeaking:
-Lakeshore west to Roncesvalles
-Roncesvalles north to Dundas West station
-Follows Dundas northwest to Jane.
At this point, a subway could continue north on Jane all the way to Eglinton and/or Finch, however, I think it could be better to connect to a Jane LRT from Bloor to Finch.
St Clair West streetcar could also be extended west to meet the new terminus at Jane/Dundas for nice connectivity.

I also find the Dufferin to Eglinton extension appealing for the simplicity of its route.

Lakeshore to Humber Bay Shores is also appealing. West of HBS, I don't think South Etobicoke warrants a subway connection. Alternatively, 501 route to Long Branch could be upgraded and would serve as an important connection. An LRT on Queensway to Sherway Gardens would be a good connection as well, although it might be better served by a Line 2 extension (why not both?).

A challenge in Etobicoke is a lack of viable North-South routes to serve as a viable corridor for a potential subway extension. This also stifles N-S network transfers between any proposed E-W lines. Royal York, Islington, Kipling, Brown's Line/427, and Dixie are all too low density suburban/industrial. Hurontario is the next viable N-S corridor, but it's simply too far west.
 
I just finished work on this map of the western sector of old Toronto with southeast Etobicoke and southwest York, showing what I'd think would be a good public transit network for this part of the whole city: https://www.deviantart.com/pyeknu/art/Toronto-Old-Toronto-West-Fantasy-Map-949732811

Since I began noting all this talk of extending Line 3/the Ontario Line west of Exhibition, I thought about it and came up with the potential route that I spoke of in a previous comment on this thread:

1) Head west along the Oakville Subdivision from Exhibition to the top of the hump on the Queensway midway between South Kingsway and Parkside Drive;

2) Arc northwest to line up on South Kingsway to bring Line 3 alongside Line 2 at Old Mill station;

3) Push line three to roughly follow the Kingsway past Old Mill to cross the Dundas Street/Royal York Road intersection in old Humbertown;

4) Arc Line 3 westward on the line of Rathburn Road (to be depicted on a map of the central part of Etobicoke soon to come) past the 427 corridor, then swing north on the line of Renforth Drive; and

5) Head north along Renforth to Eglinton Avenue West and Line 5 (plus a future LRT conversion of the Mississauga Transitway), then follow the arc of Silver Dart Drive to link up with the UP Express at Pearson Terminal 1.

I chose this path since we have three subway/LRT lines going east-west in Etobicoke (Line 2 on the Bloor/Dundas corridor,, Line 5 on the Eglinton corridor and Line 6 on the Finch/Highway 27 corridor) with nothing connecting all three. Given that current plans for Line 5 West say that the LRT would do a hard turn north at Renforth Station to go into the airport ground (which will require an either very tight turn or a long looping turn to get across the 401 corridor), it made more sense to me to have another line go into the airport grounds in lieu of doing that tight of a turn with Line 5.

Of course, I'm not ignoring the possibilities with Line 2, of course. In my Etobicoke South map here (https://www.deviantart.com/pyeknu/art/Toronto-Etobicoke-South-Fantasy-Map-948871023), I have that line arc south once past the 427 corridor to link down past Sherway Gardens to Long Branch GO to eventually link up to the McCallon LRT on Hurontario (which I would mark as Peel Rapid Transit Line 1 on my maps). I also have two additional PRT lines in the Etobicoke South region; Line 4 uses the OBRY corridor from downtown Brampton through Streetsville to feed into Kipling Station while Line 6 is an upgraded Dundas BRT concept put to rails. The Mississauga Transitway, BTW, will be PRT Line 2 once I do the Etobicoke Centre map.

Since traffic might not demand a more centralized Etobicoke north-south subway/LRT (and since the Jane LRT would be implemented as TTC Line 8), the best answer to that would be a streetcar line on the Kipling Avenue arc from said station on Line 2 north to Line 6. You'll see I extended Line 512 Saint Clair past its current western terminus to link with Kipling Station on Line 2; the terminus loop serving that line and a future Kipling streetcar would appear at the very TOP of the Etobicoke South map. This would serve the Etobicoke-only major traffic on the streetcar/subway/LRT net until increased ridership may demand something more,.

Just my two toonies here...!
 
Pyeknu said:
I just finished work on this map of the western sector of old Toronto with southeast Etobicoke and southwest York, showing what I'd think would be a good public transit network for this part of the whole city: https://www.deviantart.com/pyeknu/art/Toronto-Old-Toronto-West-Fantasy-Map-949732811

Since I began noting all this talk of extending Line 3/the Ontario Line west of Exhibition, I thought about it and came up with the potential route that I spoke of in a previous comment on this thread:

1) Head west along the Oakville Subdivision from Exhibition to the top of the hump on the Queensway midway between South Kingsway and Parkside Drive;

2) Arc northwest to line up on South Kingsway to bring Line 3 alongside Line 2 at Old Mill station;

3) Push line three to roughly follow the Kingsway past Old Mill to cross the Dundas Street/Royal York Road intersection in old Humbertown;

4) Arc Line 3 westward on the line of Rathburn Road (to be depicted on a map of the central part of Etobicoke soon to come) past the 427 corridor, then swing north on the line of Renforth Drive; and

5) Head north along Renforth to Eglinton Avenue West and Line 5 (plus a future LRT conversion of the Mississauga Transitway), then follow the arc of Silver Dart Drive to link up with the UP Express at Pearson Terminal 1.

I chose this path since we have three subway/LRT lines going east-west in Etobicoke (Line 2 on the Bloor/Dundas corridor,, Line 5 on the Eglinton corridor and Line 6 on the Finch/Highway 27 corridor) with nothing connecting all three. Given that current plans for Line 5 West say that the LRT would do a hard turn north at Renforth Station to go into the airport ground (which will require an either very tight turn or a long looping turn to get across the 401 corridor), it made more sense to me to have another line go into the airport grounds in lieu of doing that tight of a turn with Line 5.

Of course, I'm not ignoring the possibilities with Line 2, of course. In my Etobicoke South map here (https://www.deviantart.com/pyeknu/art/Toronto-Etobicoke-South-Fantasy-Map-948871023), I have that line arc south once past the 427 corridor to link down past Sherway Gardens to Long Branch GO to eventually link up to the McCallon LRT on Hurontario (which I would mark as Peel Rapid Transit Line 1 on my maps). I also have two additional PRT lines in the Etobicoke South region; Line 4 uses the OBRY corridor from downtown Brampton through Streetsville to feed into Kipling Station while Line 6 is an upgraded Dundas BRT concept put to rails. The Mississauga Transitway, BTW, will be PRT Line 2 once I do the Etobicoke Centre map.

Since traffic might not demand a more centralized Etobicoke north-south subway/LRT (and since the Jane LRT would be implemented as TTC Line 8), the best answer to that would be a streetcar line on the Kipling Avenue arc from said station on Line 2 north to Line 6. You'll see I extended Line 512 Saint Clair past its current western terminus to link with Kipling Station on Line 2; the terminus loop serving that line and a future Kipling streetcar would appear at the very TOP of the Etobicoke South map. This would serve the Etobicoke-only major traffic on the streetcar/subway/LRT net until increased ridership may demand something more,.

Just my two toonies here...!
Click to expand...
Not sure if there is something wrong on my end but the maps are unreadable to me.
 
jmi22 said:
www.deviantart.com

Toronto (Old Toronto West) (Fantasy Map) by Pyeknu on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com www.deviantart.com
The link works I just can't figure out what the map is depicting. Looks like a road network to me, cannot see the transit lines you mentioned in the post.
Click to expand...

Ah, apologies for that. This is a combination road/rail map.

If you'll look at Lake Shore Boulevard west of the Gardiner, you'll see a TTC-red thinner line overlaid on the burgundy road marking denoting a decommissioned highway. The red boxes marked 501 and 508 in white indicate the streetcar lines passing through there.

Now, look at the two-tone arch overlaid on the Oakville Subdivision tracks. The medium green marks the VIA Corridor (to Windsor) and Maple Leaf services; the boxes denoting that are marked CW and ML respectively. The GO Transit-green line marks the Lakeshore West (LW) service. Coming in from the right of the map on that same subdivision is a red line noted with red route marker box as 3; this, AFAIK, is the common route number planned for the Ontario Line once it's in commission once the Scarborough RT is shut down and scrapped.

Following that line along the Oakville Subdivision, you'll note Line 3 breaking away from the VIA/GO services just to the west of Colborne Lodge Drive. The line goes dotted to denote it's gone underground once past Ellis Avenue, that arcing northwest to fall on the route of South Kingsway a bit before arcing to cross the path of Line 2 just before going into Old Mill Station; this will be the interchange between the Bloor-Danforth and Ontario lines west of downtown.

After Old Mill, Line 3 follows the Kingsway approximately as it arcs north and west towards Renforth Drive, where it'll turn west (flowing off the map here) to proceed on to interchange with Line 5 and the Mississauga Transitway at Renforth Station.

You'll also see I marked Lines 2 and 8 on this map. Line 2 was easy since it already exists and is nicely marked on Open Street Map. Line 8 is the Jane LRT, which I've included on these maps since it appears such a system is going to be funded and constructed sometime in the near future. However, I added onto the plan by having an underground section extend south from Jane Station to connect with Line 3; both lines are planned for standard 1435 mm track gauge so it's possible to allow Line 8 to co-use the Line 3 route down to Exhibition Station, where I'll have it stop.

The new stations on Line 3 here, going east to west...

Jameson: Right under the bridge taking Jameson Street over the Oakville Subdivision ROW.
Parkside-Saint Joseph's: At the overpass on Parkside Drive just south of the Queensway; you'll see I also extended streetcar line 506 down from the High Park Loop to interchange with lines 501/508. So called because of both the street and the nearby hospital.
Ellis/Sunnyside: Just north of the Oakville Subdivision overpass on Ellis Avenue. So called for the street and the nearby Sunnyside Park south of the Gardiner. Again, one can transfer to lines 501 and 508 here.
Swansea/Morningside: On South Kingsway south of Morningside Avenue, the south end of the station touching Worthington Crescent. So called as this part of old Toronto was once the town of Swansea. Here, routes 3 and 8 split to go their separate ways.
Old Mill: Explained above.
Humbertown: On the southeast side of the interchange between Dundas Avenue West and Islington Avenue; named after the surrounding neighbourhood. You'll see here I extended the line 512 streetcar west along Saint Clair Avenue West onto Dundas West to eventually stop at a new loop near Kipling Station; there'll be an interchange between Lines 3 and 512 here.
Anglesea: At the crossing of the Kingsway and Anglesea Boulevard.

Spoiler alert: On the upcoming Etobicoke Centre map, Line 3 will loop west in a shallow S-curve to fall on the line of Rathburn Road at Kipling Avenue before heading west towards Renforth Drive, then turn north towards the airport.

As for the Line 8 stop names, all come from the Jane LRT entry in Wikipedia. I changed three of them here...

Jane/Bloor West: Currently Jane Station on Line 2.
Annette (Humberside): Adding the name of this particular part of old York to the street name.
Rockcliffe-Smythe: So called because of this stop being at the southern end of that neighbourhood in old York; this removes the need to reuse the names "Saint Clair" and "Jane" on station names to prevent confusion.

BTW, I try my best to explain all the changes I've put in on the map in the description below on Deviant Art. If there were things lacking, I can amend stuff there.
 
Pyeknu said:
I just finished work on this map of the western sector of old Toronto with southeast Etobicoke and southwest York, showing what I'd think would be a good public transit network for this part of the whole city: https://www.deviantart.com/pyeknu/art/Toronto-Old-Toronto-West-Fantasy-Map-949732811

Since I began noting all this talk of extending Line 3/the Ontario Line west of Exhibition, I thought about it and came up with the potential route that I spoke of in a previous comment on this thread:

1) Head west along the Oakville Subdivision from Exhibition to the top of the hump on the Queensway midway between South Kingsway and Parkside Drive;

2) Arc northwest to line up on South Kingsway to bring Line 3 alongside Line 2 at Old Mill station;

3) Push line three to roughly follow the Kingsway past Old Mill to cross the Dundas Street/Royal York Road intersection in old Humbertown;

4) Arc Line 3 westward on the line of Rathburn Road (to be depicted on a map of the central part of Etobicoke soon to come) past the 427 corridor, then swing north on the line of Renforth Drive; and

5) Head north along Renforth to Eglinton Avenue West and Line 5 (plus a future LRT conversion of the Mississauga Transitway), then follow the arc of Silver Dart Drive to link up with the UP Express at Pearson Terminal 1.

I chose this path since we have three subway/LRT lines going east-west in Etobicoke (Line 2 on the Bloor/Dundas corridor,, Line 5 on the Eglinton corridor and Line 6 on the Finch/Highway 27 corridor) with nothing connecting all three. Given that current plans for Line 5 West say that the LRT would do a hard turn north at Renforth Station to go into the airport ground (which will require an either very tight turn or a long looping turn to get across the 401 corridor), it made more sense to me to have another line go into the airport grounds in lieu of doing that tight of a turn with Line 5.

Of course, I'm not ignoring the possibilities with Line 2, of course. In my Etobicoke South map here (https://www.deviantart.com/pyeknu/art/Toronto-Etobicoke-South-Fantasy-Map-948871023), I have that line arc south once past the 427 corridor to link down past Sherway Gardens to Long Branch GO to eventually link up to the McCallon LRT on Hurontario (which I would mark as Peel Rapid Transit Line 1 on my maps). I also have two additional PRT lines in the Etobicoke South region; Line 4 uses the OBRY corridor from downtown Brampton through Streetsville to feed into Kipling Station while Line 6 is an upgraded Dundas BRT concept put to rails. The Mississauga Transitway, BTW, will be PRT Line 2 once I do the Etobicoke Centre map.

Since traffic might not demand a more centralized Etobicoke north-south subway/LRT (and since the Jane LRT would be implemented as TTC Line 8), the best answer to that would be a streetcar line on the Kipling Avenue arc from said station on Line 2 north to Line 6. You'll see I extended Line 512 Saint Clair past its current western terminus to link with Kipling Station on Line 2; the terminus loop serving that line and a future Kipling streetcar would appear at the very TOP of the Etobicoke South map. This would serve the Etobicoke-only major traffic on the streetcar/subway/LRT net until increased ridership may demand something more,.

Just my two toonies here...!
Click to expand...
Welcome! Nice Map.
 
Pyeknu said:
Thanks. Should have a map of central Etobicoke (covering from Kipling Station to the 409 N/S, Etobicoke Creek to Royal York Road E/W) up sometime soon. It will also contain where I plan to take Line 3 beyond Anglesea Station.
Click to expand...
This sounds more like a fantasy map than Ontario line speculation.

Transit Fantasy Maps

Okay in light of new election promises concerning transit got me thinking of all the new expansion/extension projects that could be done. Here's my ideas: 1. Eglinton- elevated structure between Avenue Rd and Bayview Ave. Continues underground west to Black Creek Dr and east to Don Mills Rd...
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
 
nfitz said:
This sounds more like a fantasy map than Ontario line speculation.

Transit Fantasy Maps

Okay in light of new election promises concerning transit got me thinking of all the new expansion/extension projects that could be done. Here's my ideas: 1. Eglinton- elevated structure between Avenue Rd and Bayview Ave. Continues underground west to Black Creek Dr and east to Don Mills Rd...
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
Click to expand...
This forum is titled 'Ontario Line Extension West of Ontario Place (Speculation)'. The map they posted depicts exactly that, and fits in this thread. The forum you linked is a catch all for Toronto fantasy transit maps and rarely has detailed line routings posted in it.
 
jmi22 said:
This forum is titled 'Ontario Line Extension West of Ontario Place (Speculation)'. The map they posted depicts exactly that, and fits in this thread. The forum you linked is a catch all for Toronto fantasy transit maps and rarely has detailed line routings posted in it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, JMI. Anyhow, here's the second and last map I'm going to make that concerns the westward expansion of the Ontario Line (which, as I noted before, I designate as Line 3 in my map series). First, the link...

www.deviantart.com

Toronto (Etobicoke Centre) (Fantasy Map) by Pyeknu on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com www.deviantart.com

Now, here's the specific statement concerning Line 3 depicted here:

As introduced in the Old Toronto West map, TTC Line 3 (the Ontario Line) will be extended into Etobicoke via Old Mill Station on the Humber River to ultimately connect to Pearson International Airport, thus removing the need to do a hard north turn once TTC Line 5 (the Eglinton Crosstown) is stretched out to Renforth Station. In addition to the extension of Line 5, I also extend TTC Line 6 (the Finch West LRT) south from Humber College along the Barrie Street (Route 1) corridor to the level of Dixon Road (Route 22) before turning west to finally terminate at Pearson Airport's Terminal One with Route 3. Atop that, since I would see the Mississauga Transitway upgraded to a light rail transit line to cross the city of the same name (here known as Peel Region Transit Line 2), this would make Renforth Station a perfect connecting hub for the western end of Toronto.

Thus, the following stations are added...

Line 3 Ontario
Anglesea: Corner of Anglesea Boulevard (Route 46) and the Kingsway (Route 405)
Thorncrest Village: Corner of Islington Avenue (Route 63) and Anglesea Boulevard
Rosethorn/Saint Gregory: Corner of Kipling Avenue (Route 3) and Rathburn Road (Route 46)
Glen Agar: Corner of Martin Grove Road (Route 33) and Rathburn Road
Capri Park (The East Mall): Corner of The East Mall (Route 93) and Rathburn Road
The West Mall: Corner of The West Mall (Route 91) and Rathburn Road
Centennial Park: Corner of Renforth Drive (Route 9) and Lafferty Street
Renforth: In the area squared off by Renforth Drive, Eglinton Avenue West (Route 18/Peel 118) and Matheson Boulevard (Peel 119)
Convair/Silver Dart: Off Convair Road (Peel 103) west of Renforth Drive
Pearson Airport: Under Pearson Airport's Terminal One complex

BTW, is there a separate chat here that concerns an eastern expansion on the Ontario Line past the Science Centre station?
 
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