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OneCity Plan

leopetr said:
I don't think it makes sense. Shorter lines are easier to operate reliably, both lines go through an expanded Union Station streetcar loop so a hypothetical transfer is easy, and I don't think platform dwell time is a concern.

Waterfront West would come in via Bremner and the Air Canada Centre basement, while Queens Quay East would come in via a new portal at Queens Quay and Bay.
Click to expand...

The alignment and portal location of the WELRT (or streetcar) can be changed though in order to line up better with the WWLRT.

I just figured that having a single thru-line on the entire waterfront would be desirable.

innsertnamehere said:
I thought Waterfront west would run down queens quay and go underground at the same point as waterfront east..
Click to expand...

Nope. The WWLRT is supposed to use the median of Bremner out to Bathurst. If you look at Bremner through CityPlace, you can see that it's pretty wide, because it's been specifically designed for in-median LRT.
 
gweed123 said:
I was looking at the link that CC posted, not the Star graphic. They seem to both be showing the same thing though.
Click to expand...
The Stintz map is out now. Does indeed to be down King - however the text on the website clearly says "Eglinton to Queen Station. Early days yet. Perhaps Stintz hired the Star's geographically-challenged cartographer.

The plan as a whole, does seem to be a political deal, more than anything else. But a political deal with the purpose of putting together a financing scheme, and kick-starting some of the projects ... presumably the extension to Scarborough Centre and Waterfront East LRT lines ... and presumably the Don Mills line.

Clearly some of the plans are non-starters - such as the subways along the rail corridor to Scarborough and Etobicoke ... as we all know that there isn't space for track available, and that it is unlikely Metrolinx will go for it. But I assume that this is here to get the votes from the councillors that don't know any better.

The website is live, BTW:

http://onecitytransitplan.com/
 
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I think the elephant in the room isn't just the money, per se, but the degree to which this dovetails vs. conflicts with Metrolinx.

On the one hand, obviously it's great Toronto is having a serious discussion about a tax to pay for transit.
On the other hand, Metrolinx is supposed to be leading that discussion about funding and building a proper REGIONAL network. They even approved a plan, with priorities!
On the other hand, they've been taking forever with the funding strategy.
On the other hand, while Toronto surging forward is great, it has the potential to have a domino effect with other municipalities which seems to short circuit what Metrolinx is doing.

As maybe the most obvious example: They want to stop the Yonge subway (and Jane LRT and Don Mills LRT) at Steeles. I certainly don't expect Stintz to ask TO taxpayers to fund the lines north of the city BUT it's in the GTA's interests to not stop those lines 2KM short of link-ups with major E-W rapid transit (ie Viva and the Transitway). I do see the map has little arrows pointing north which suggests at least some degree of forward-thinking; that's encouraging.

So, if they go forward, that forces York Region to consider its own tax to keep those lines going. That's not a bad thing, in and of itself, but I feel like the entire point of Metrolinx was to be at the forefront of this discussion instead of having a patchwork of munis making "selfish" decisions.

Metrolinx's 2013 investment strategy will be several months late (and likely still several dollars short) if Toronto, York Region and who knows who else have transit taxes in place by the time it hits the streets. It will sure be harder to sell an ADDITIONAL regional tax of some sort if those taxes are in place too, methinks.

So, I guess my question is...is the government body that's supposed to be creating and funding a regional transit network involved in any of this at all? And if not, shouldn't they be?
 
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Let's not kid ourselves, it's Karen's litmus test at Mayoralty 2 years shy of the election, not an actual transit plan. But kudos on her, Toronto would appreciate someone closer to the center than a hardliner, even by it's own party standards
 
It's nice to see a financing plan, but I would have hoped for some of the money to have come from increased taxes on commercial parking spaces, congestion charges, road tolls and maybe a portion of an additional tax on gasoline sales in the GTA.
 
The yonge bloor subway upgrade has always been valued at $1 billion, when it was a part of the yonge subway extension. (ok, it is technically $995 million) I question the importance of it if the DRL gets built first though. I also find the finch LRT east of keele unnecessary if you are building a subway line 2km south.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they put this together themselves, without professional help in the graphic design part.
 
nfitz said:
The Stintz map is out now. Does indeed to be down King - however the text on the website clearly says "Eglinton to Queen Station. Early days yet. Perhaps Stintz hired the Star's geographically-challenged cartographer.

The plan as a whole, does seem to be a political deal, more than anything else. But a political deal with the purpose of putting together a financing scheme, and kick-starting some of the projects ... presumably the extension to Scarborough Centre and Waterfront East LRT lines ... and presumably the Don Mills line.

Clearly some of the plans are non-starters - such as the subways along the rail corridor to Scarborough and Etobicoke ... as we all know that there isn't space for track available, and that it is unlikely Metrolinx will go for it. But I assume that this is here to get the votes from the councillors that don't know any better.

The website is live, BTW:

http://onecitytransitplan.com/
Click to expand...

I think it's a combination of a political deal and a rehashing of various proposals for different lines that were floated around over the years.

I have no problem with it being politically motivated, as long as it makes sense from a transit planning perspective as well. It seems the only way things actually get done is through political motivation. So if it works on both of those levels, full steam ahead!
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
insertnamehere:

I thought it was supposed to be $500M, not 1B. It's a pretty shocking figure in any case.

AoD
Click to expand...

I can see why though. it's fairly difficult to expand a subway stop when there are 3 30 floor skyscrapers sitting on top...

and the bloor yonge reno was the main reason why the yonge extension was originally so expensive, at $350 million a km.

something i noticed, but they seem to have alloted $530 million a km for the DRL.. does that seem a bit expensive to you? or is it just because there will need to be extremely complicated downtown digging, and a new bridge over the don valley?
 
innsertnamehere said:
It works out to something like $45 dollars each time you pay, so $180 yearly.
Click to expand...

No. The proposal is $180 increase in average tax. If they phase it in over four years then it is 45, 90, 135, 180, 180, 180, ...

My point is that 180 is not nearly enough to pay for what they are promising here.
 
We may, as a city and region, be a bit short of transit....but we must, surely, lead the world in transit plans with catchy names and maps to debate.
 
insertrealname:

Downtown digging, interchange stations that are potentially deeper than the Yonge line, depending on alignment it might need 2 bridges to hit Thorncliffe and then Flemingdon Park.

AoD
 
k10ery said:
No. The proposal is $180 increase in average tax. If they phase it in over four years then it is 45, 90, 135, 180, 180, 180, ...

My point is that 180 is not nearly enough to pay for what they are promising here.
Click to expand...


oh, is see what you are saying. it will be $180 a year for 30 years, with a 4 year phase in period. it makes sense IMO. Toronto pays ridiculously low property taxes anyway... the average person living in ajax pays an average of over $1500 more a year than someone in toronto.
 
The Bloor/Yonge upgrade is more for the Yonge station downstairs to Unionize it with an extra platform so less people would have to move further down the platform with a new south platform.
 
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