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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)
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TonyV
Senior Member
I've professed indifference to a casino, to this point, but that's unusual because I'm not usually a fence-sitter.
Call it my "Ontario Fatigue" because of the inevitability of OLG scooping up the dough and spreading it all over Ontario. I could whore out and say 'yes' to a casino if the proceeds were dedicated to Toronto transit expansion, but we all know that's not likely to happen, no matter what stripe of politician inhabits the Ontario Premier's office.
And so, on the morning news, Paul Godfrey was cautioning Toronto about potentially losing the "benefits" of a casino with a no vote, and I thought, well, there really is no benefit in store for us; I have listened carefully to the 'yes' side, and I'm not sold.
My stance is that the McDonalds franchises (and whatnot) would benefit, and so would the operators and OLG. So ask yourselves, is that the kind of tourist we want to cater to in this town, and is that how we want to decide land usage? Call me a snob, by all means, but I'll pass. We've ascertained, from other cities, that casino tourists generally stick to gambling and they don't get out into the city at large. It ain't rocket science.
So I am no longer indifferent, but I'll give you this: gamblers will always be around.
Certainly 'no' to the Ex MGM proposal. The public ought to seriously heed Jack Diamond -- the MGM proposal is poor land use, and once the Ex land is squandered there's no coming back from it. I know the Ex is crying out for ideas but we've waited this long; let's be mature and not jump on the expedient casino choice.
Call it my "Ontario Fatigue" because of the inevitability of OLG scooping up the dough and spreading it all over Ontario. I could whore out and say 'yes' to a casino if the proceeds were dedicated to Toronto transit expansion, but we all know that's not likely to happen, no matter what stripe of politician inhabits the Ontario Premier's office.
And so, on the morning news, Paul Godfrey was cautioning Toronto about potentially losing the "benefits" of a casino with a no vote, and I thought, well, there really is no benefit in store for us; I have listened carefully to the 'yes' side, and I'm not sold.
My stance is that the McDonalds franchises (and whatnot) would benefit, and so would the operators and OLG. So ask yourselves, is that the kind of tourist we want to cater to in this town, and is that how we want to decide land usage? Call me a snob, by all means, but I'll pass. We've ascertained, from other cities, that casino tourists generally stick to gambling and they don't get out into the city at large. It ain't rocket science.
So I am no longer indifferent, but I'll give you this: gamblers will always be around.
Certainly 'no' to the Ex MGM proposal. The public ought to seriously heed Jack Diamond -- the MGM proposal is poor land use, and once the Ex land is squandered there's no coming back from it. I know the Ex is crying out for ideas but we've waited this long; let's be mature and not jump on the expedient casino choice.
TOareaFan
Superstar
jett
New Member
I hope this is just a crap shoot design, and it's not the real thing. I want something screams loud and wow! I want something similar to the Marina Bay Sands in Singapore, damn it!
And I 100% support a casino. ONLY if itès done right! Go big or go home!
Seriously, the EX is dead! Ontario Place is dead! Casino is the best solution there. The last thing we need are parks and condos.
And I 100% support a casino. ONLY if itès done right! Go big or go home!
Seriously, the EX is dead! Ontario Place is dead! Casino is the best solution there. The last thing we need are parks and condos.
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TOperson
Active Member
A CASINO is the best solution for a big piece of publicly owned lakeside land?
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Hmm, Jack Diamond is a condo developer.... it would be to his best intrest, that the waterfront stays free of any entertainment complex
so in the future he can move in like a hawk with a sleepy condo development. They are all snakes
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
That's the most bizarre accusation - Jack Diamond is one of the many Toronto architects with condo portfolios, it's not like they have to hire him/his firm, you know (and the current Ex didn't send projects his way either - Allstream and HK Hotel both went to NORR).
AoD
AoD
ChesterCopperpot
Senior Member
D+S haven't worked on that many condos in the city either - they have those two buildings at King and Spadina and two in the Regent Park Revitilization - and the proposed HNR project at Yonge and Dundas
TonyV
Senior Member
Here is the article to which I referred above, from the Globe and Mail, March 6, 2013.
Diamond is a guy who cares about land uses, benefits to our city, and social impact. A stark contrast against those who just want a new bauble to point to as they drive by, whether or not a positive addition our city.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/jack-diamond-slams-casino-plan/article9390838/
"Jack Diamond Slams Casino Plan"
One of the country’s most prominent architects says a massive Toronto casino does not make sense from a real-estate perspective and would have crushing social impacts.
Jack Diamond, principal with Diamond and Schmitt Architects, met with The Globe and Mail’s editorial board Wednesday. Mr. Diamond, whose work includes Toronto’s Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts and the Israeli Foreign Ministry, told the board he is vehemently opposed to a large gaming complex in the city.
“The Exhibition grounds belong to the city of Toronto and the public,” he said, referring to one of the potential casino sites. “The fact that we’re not using it well is the excuse, currently. But once it’s gone, it’s gone. That is a public good that we should retain.”
Mr. Diamond was joined Wednesday by Maureen Lynett, co-founder of No Casino Toronto, and Sandy Garossino, co-founder of Vancouver Not Vegas, which in 2011 led the charge against a $500-million casino in downtown Vancouver.
Mr. Diamond, who is a member of the Order of Ontario and an Officer of the Order of Canada, said people who are problem gamblers tend to be at the bottom of the income scale. The money they would use on food, rent and clothes is instead handed over to casinos.
He said he is not opposed to the existing casino at Woodbine, but is against a new Toronto gaming facility because of its accessibility. “If you make high accessibility [gaming] in a central urban area, the impact of the casino will be far greater than having it at Woodbine,” he said.
The casino issue will go before Mayor Rob Ford’s executive committee later this month, with a full council vote expected in April. The mayor has expressed his support for the casino, arguing it will bring in millions in revenue and thousands of jobs.
Mr. Diamond questioned the revenue projections, which have ranged anywhere from $18-million to $106-million to $168-million.
The Port Lands site is also being considered for a casino and Mr. Diamond said that, too, would be a mistake. “I see that as an extraordinary future for this city. I mean, it’s a Venice on our city core boundary,” he said, referring to the area’s canals and its proposed redevelopment as a mixed-use residential site and parkland on the waterfront.
Ms. Lynett said No Casino Toronto has come a long way since she co-founded the group in June. The group has said a casino would increase crime and traffic gridlock. Ms. Lynett said the casino opposition is growing stronger and people no longer say to her, “Who are you?”
Diamond is a guy who cares about land uses, benefits to our city, and social impact. A stark contrast against those who just want a new bauble to point to as they drive by, whether or not a positive addition our city.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/jack-diamond-slams-casino-plan/article9390838/
"Jack Diamond Slams Casino Plan"
One of the country’s most prominent architects says a massive Toronto casino does not make sense from a real-estate perspective and would have crushing social impacts.
Jack Diamond, principal with Diamond and Schmitt Architects, met with The Globe and Mail’s editorial board Wednesday. Mr. Diamond, whose work includes Toronto’s Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts and the Israeli Foreign Ministry, told the board he is vehemently opposed to a large gaming complex in the city.
“The Exhibition grounds belong to the city of Toronto and the public,” he said, referring to one of the potential casino sites. “The fact that we’re not using it well is the excuse, currently. But once it’s gone, it’s gone. That is a public good that we should retain.”
Mr. Diamond was joined Wednesday by Maureen Lynett, co-founder of No Casino Toronto, and Sandy Garossino, co-founder of Vancouver Not Vegas, which in 2011 led the charge against a $500-million casino in downtown Vancouver.
Mr. Diamond, who is a member of the Order of Ontario and an Officer of the Order of Canada, said people who are problem gamblers tend to be at the bottom of the income scale. The money they would use on food, rent and clothes is instead handed over to casinos.
He said he is not opposed to the existing casino at Woodbine, but is against a new Toronto gaming facility because of its accessibility. “If you make high accessibility [gaming] in a central urban area, the impact of the casino will be far greater than having it at Woodbine,” he said.
The casino issue will go before Mayor Rob Ford’s executive committee later this month, with a full council vote expected in April. The mayor has expressed his support for the casino, arguing it will bring in millions in revenue and thousands of jobs.
Mr. Diamond questioned the revenue projections, which have ranged anywhere from $18-million to $106-million to $168-million.
The Port Lands site is also being considered for a casino and Mr. Diamond said that, too, would be a mistake. “I see that as an extraordinary future for this city. I mean, it’s a Venice on our city core boundary,” he said, referring to the area’s canals and its proposed redevelopment as a mixed-use residential site and parkland on the waterfront.
Ms. Lynett said No Casino Toronto has come a long way since she co-founded the group in June. The group has said a casino would increase crime and traffic gridlock. Ms. Lynett said the casino opposition is growing stronger and people no longer say to her, “Who are you?”
toto
Active Member
Jack Diamond is an Architect who gets hired by developers and in reality, not that often by ones that build condos.
AG, I sort of agree with you in that many developers are snakes. The pythons of developers, are the ones pushing for casinos where they don't belong.
ChesterCopperpot
Senior Member
calimehtar
Active Member
The OLG offers to double Toronto's take:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-would-double-its-casino-take/article9811329/
Originally I didn't have a strong opinion about this, but as the facts pile up - GO lobbyists, and now this - I find myself becoming increasingly suspicious. I don't like their plans to remake Exhibition Place. Almost anything could improve Exhibition Place, but this takes it too far in the wrong direction.
If we are to have a casino in Toronto, I would be fine with a small, well-designed unobtrusive one. There are some lovely European cities with casinos that aren't negatively affected by the presence of casinos, IMO (Montreux comes to mind). I don't want to see a huge slice of the downtown transformed into an amusement park for gambling.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-would-double-its-casino-take/article9811329/
Originally I didn't have a strong opinion about this, but as the facts pile up - GO lobbyists, and now this - I find myself becoming increasingly suspicious. I don't like their plans to remake Exhibition Place. Almost anything could improve Exhibition Place, but this takes it too far in the wrong direction.
If we are to have a casino in Toronto, I would be fine with a small, well-designed unobtrusive one. There are some lovely European cities with casinos that aren't negatively affected by the presence of casinos, IMO (Montreux comes to mind). I don't want to see a huge slice of the downtown transformed into an amusement park for gambling.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
I dont know about the EX site, but from what i understand the Oxford plan would only have 5-10% dedicated to the Casino
TonyV
Senior Member
50M to 100M to Toronto per year is just a starting point as far as I am concerned. The haul from a central Toronto casino would be huge, and I would want the lion's share of the proceeds to go into Toronto's coffers to offset the nasty Harris-era downloading so that we can get on with transit and other initiatives. If I were in the city's administration I'd walk from this offer because it isn't good enough.
tayser
Active Member
One block west of Crown is South Wharf which has the Exhibition and Convention centres - I wouldn't call it horrible, dead yes, owing to the nature of the buildings - like stadiums they shouldn't built anywhere near dense hubs as they're generally single use and only used at specific times. South Wharf has dramatically improved in terms of activation as the recent extension of the convention centre had river-facing bars/restaurants added as well as the Polly Woodside museum re-opening.