OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

[freshcutgrass]

I wonder what the Chippewas of Rama First Nation think of this Toronto casino. With ample parking for buses and cars, It will definitely take a lot of their business away, especially if the Toronto Casino has a big concert venue.

Well obviously. 71% of Casino Rams's patrons come from the GTA. I think it is a safe bet that any new GTA located casino complex will outclass Casino Rama, so there's little reason for those patrons to travel all that added distance.

But that's not all they have to worry about...what this move would do, is essentially force the Chippewas to sell the casino to private investors and hope for a decent cut. Either way...they lose. This should be a lesson for those who think its a great idea to support yourself on gambling.

But that's exactly what the OLG wants...to privatize the casinos, so they don't have to get their hands dirty running things and paying employees...just sit back and rake in their hefty cut, and let the private sector do all the hard work and take all the risks. That's why they want to "expand" gambling in Ontario.

Speaking of transit, with a year round instead of seasonal venue at OP, perhaps the CNE streetcar could be redirected via the casino entrance.

Routing the Exhibition streetcar around the EX/OP site is a fairly simple matter, but it can't be done unless their is a grand plan in hand to redesign the entire site...which there isn't

 

[adma]

More likely, they'll fall back on the Dufferin bus and perhaps an Ikea-esque jitney from the existing streetcar loop.

 

[SunriseChampion]

More likely, they'll fall back on the Dufferin bus and perhaps an Ikea-esque jitney from the existing streetcar loop.

Thank you very much! Your post has fulfilled the need for my pre-bed chuckle and for once I didn't have to turn to Karl Pilkington to tuck me in.

 

[freshcutgrass]

More likely, they'll fall back on the Dufferin bus and perhaps an Ikea-esque jitney from the existing streetcar loop.

I don't think that will be an issue, as I doubt very much that if the EX is chosen as the site, it will not be located at the EX's western end. Those buildings are already leased and bringing in revenue to the city.

The most likely site would be the vacant land directly west of the new hotel, across the street from the Direct Energy Centre. Or even perhaps the vacant parcel directly east of the stadium...this would make it very accessible to both the streetcar & GO train platform.

This would bring together hotel, convention, entertainment and sports facilities, which are all very complimentary with casinos, and somewhat isolated together, which spurns cross-pollination between them. It also has the best exposure to existing parking (including 1300 under-utilized underground spaces at the DEC).

Since direct revenues from OLG to the city isn't likely to generate all that much revenue, the city would want to secure added revenue from such a venture from land leasing and parking fees (the City would definitely secure rights to all parking facilities). The city owns the land at EX Place, and this is to be a venture with the private sector...not the province.

Now, the province is probably thinking the same thing....they own what is now a dink Ontario Place and have to come up with something to do with it. Seeing as they like to take the lazy way out and they wouldn't mind turning a liability into an asset, they may see it as a way to kill two birds with one stone. Why not add the extra revenue of a juicy leasing deal on land they have essentially now considered surplus assets to the casino revenue.

But the actual island part of Ontario Place is not a likely spot....more likely one of the giant parking lots on the south side of Lakeshore.

But I'm hoping that is not the case, and the province doesn't forget what Ontario Place was in the first place...a proud civic space...not a money-making scheme. Time will tell, and this is riding on John Tory. We'll see just how much integrity he has.

 

[adma]

Speakig of jitneys, I believe Woodbine has one to transport car-parkers to the entrance (such of the consequences of a honking huge parking lot, plus maybe the senior-ish status of slots-goers)

 

[a0th]

Correct, the last thing a Casino operator wants is a view to distract the gamblers from the tables. As far as choosing a site because it has lots of parking spaces on which to build remember that the Casino will probably need more parking than the site needs now. A casino and the EX or OP operating concurrently would need more parking that is currently available, not less.

its so the patrons cant tell how much time has passed actually, there are no clocks in a casino either

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Speaking of transit, with a year round instead of seasonal venue at OP, perhaps the CNE streetcar could be redirected via the casino entrance.

That's what I suggested back on page one or two of this thread but my idea was dismissed. Use the Ontario Place pods to start until a suitable, permanent facility can be sourced and built. A permanent casino should be somewhere downtown, easily accessible to tourists with buried parking and then the venue built above so as not to kill the area surrounding.

 

[Just_Chris]

Toronto doesn't need a casino. Casinos are for trashy, tacky places that are desperate to draw in the unwashed masses.

I remember in the early 1990s, Donald Trump was interviewed on a Canadian news show (don't remember which one). They were talking about building a casino in Windsor (which he was for, I'm guessing he was in contention to build/operate it?), and even he acknowledged the crime and other social problems that a casino brings with it (and this was a guy arguing heavily FOR the casino). If you don't believe it, try going down to Atlantic City.

Even near downtown, a casino wouldn't help other nearby businesses. A casino sucks people in, and empties them of their wallets so they don't have money to spend on nearby businesses. Even if they do eat, it's almost always at the casino buffet.

They are inward-looking places with no social benefit. They can help the Provincial tax coffers, but they can do that wherever they are built. They don't need to be built in Toronto. I really see no benefit to building a casino in Toronto. If you're that desperate to lose your paycheque, you can go to Rama or Niagara.

 

[Just_Chris]

Yes StCatherines, my comment was sarcastic. To imply that casinos alone will increase crime and other illegal activities is ridiculous.

Not at all. I've seen Donald Trump himself acknowledge that casinos bring with them crime and myriad social problems. And he has all the reason in the world to be pro-casino. It only makes sense. People go to these places, piss away their paycheque, and then have to resort to unsavoury things to get by. How exactly is this going to benefit our community?

Gambling is a tax on the stupid.

 

[spider]

They are inward-looking places with no social benefit. They can help the Provincial tax coffers, but they can do that wherever they are built. They don't need to be built in Toronto. I really see no benefit to building a casino in Toronto. If you're that desperate to lose your paycheque, you can go to Rama or Niagara.

The only benefit I see is getting all those busses off the road.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I really see no benefit to building a casino in Toronto. If you're that desperate to lose your paycheque, you can go to Rama or Niagara.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. The whole reason OLG wants a GTA casino, is because they want to increase casino revenues. And the best way to attract more gamblers, and to increase regular repeat gamblers is to make it more convenient, to a larger population/tourist base. And that's Toronto.

There's a reason the GTA never had casinos, and border cities did, is because the province always knew casinos are not good...they relied on Americans and tourists for customers. But now they don't care, and are just in for the cash grab. American tourists are WAY down, which is why NF & Windsor aren't doing so well. And the province doesn't care that a Toronto casino will decimate the casino business in these other locations (which actually rely a lot more on the jobs and revenue).

It's all about the money now.

 

[spider]

It's all about the money now.

And it used to be all about what? Culture?

 

[neubilder]

Ontario Place is DONE. A Casino there would be great. People go to Canada's wonderland now.

To conclude that because Ontario place as an amusement park is 'done' means that the location is worthless, or worthy of nothing better than a casino, is totally flawed reasoning.

 

[MadMax]

Our evolution as a city requires that the we get a casino...it's a natural progression and we should embrace it, not run from it. We've gotten our museum, our parks and beaches, ritzy hotels, condos, aquarium and now casino. Every major city evolves at its own pace...its just taken Toronto a little longer than most to get there. Toronto can handle one casino folks...if London can handle 25 of them, then its no big deal. There are recreational gamblers and there are de-generates that gamble. Always has and always will be...doesn't matter where you put the casino. There are probaly more underground gambling dens in Toronto in the world that are of no economic benefit to the city or province whatsoever. Regulating it here would make a big difference.

 

[freshcutgrass]

if London can handle 25 of them, then its no big deal.

Ha...what a joke. Again...talking about high-roller clubs in London that go back nearly 200 years, where it's memberships and dress codes to Ontario casinos where people wander in with their Lulu Lemons and sneakers like it was a McDonalds or a Walmart. Same lame argument as bringing up Monte Carlo.

Our evolution as a city requires that the we get a casino...it's a natural progression and we should embrace it, not run from it. We've gotten our museum, our parks and beaches, ritzy hotels, condos, aquarium and now casino.

That has to be one of the most comical statements I've ever heard.