unimaginative2
Senior Member
I think most Americans moving here (or at least a good proportion) move for primarily social and political reasons, rather than economic.
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O, Canada! More Americans Heading North
- Thread starter ganjavih
- Start date
Mot
Active Member
For us it's very much political reasons. We are a binational gay couple here in the US. I am denied access to immigration law here to sponsor him for permanent residency. We're part of a small support group of people, straight and gay, who wish to be Canadian. I know this probably sounds hokey but you all should be so proud of your country. I know I am ashamed of mine and the sooner I get out of here the better.
We're very fortunate to have Canada. Initially we wanted to move to the maritimes, but one visit to Toronto and we were in love with the city.
We're very fortunate to have Canada. Initially we wanted to move to the maritimes, but one visit to Toronto and we were in love with the city.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
My friend Ron escaped from New Jersey, the U.S. army, and the Vietnam War in 1968 for Toronto. The Underground Railroad led here too - slavery was abolished in Upper Canada while it was still legal in Britain and the States. So you'll be travelling a well-worn path to freedom.
Degnaw
New Member
article
More Americans heading North
U.S. immigration to Canada at 30-year high, but fewer Canadians moving to United States
Aug 06, 2007 04:30 AM
Tim Harper
Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON–It was a popular vow of apprehensive Democrats in 2004, a pledge made in the heat of battle to move to Canada if George W. Bush was re-elected.
Turns out, some of them did.
An analysis of immigration statistics done by the Montreal-based Association for Canadian Studies showed the number of Americans who moved to Canada in 2006 hit a 30-year high, almost double the number who moved north in 2000 when Bush was elected for a first term as U.S. president.
The analysis also showed the southward brain drain is being narrowed somewhat, and most of the American migrants are highly educated people who may be moving to Canada for quality of life and social reasons.
The numbers were not huge – 10,942 Americans moved to Canada last year, far smaller than the influx predicted when bogus maps of the United States of Canada began hitting the Internet in the waning days of the 2004 campaign.
The day after Bush was re-elected president, there were 191,000 hits on Canada's immigration website, six times its average traffic, most of it from the U.S.
Websites sprouted explaining the mechanics of the Canadian immigration system, and Canadian women, tongues in cheek, offered to marry anti-war Americans.
But the increase is symbolic, said Jack Jedwab, the executive director of the association that analyzed the statistics. "Given that most of these immigrants are university-educated or better, you can assume they can find work in the U.S., so the move must be based on other reasons,'' Jedwab said.
Citizenship and Immigration Canada reported that 49.5 per cent of the Americans who migrated to Canada in 2006 had at least a bachelor's degree.
Jedwab said anecdotal information points to politics, health care, social issues, possibly even the strengthening Canadian dollar as lures northward, he said.
For 34-year-old labour organizer Tom Kertes, the move last April from Seattle, Wash., to Toronto was based on human rights.
"The words `human rights' are foreign words in the U.S.,'' Kertes said.
"They only apply to other countries.''
He moved to Toronto with his partner Ron Braun and the two plan to marry, something they could not do in Washington state.
He also cited the war in Iraq and the torture of Iraqi prisoners by Americans – and the failure of the Bush administration to clearly disavow such practice – as contributing factors to what is a major decision.
"Moving countries is not done lightly,'' he says.
He said he found the tolerance of Toronto welcoming and he thought Canadians were proud of their reputation for tolerance.
The 2006 figure marks the first time there have been more than 10,000 American migrants to Canada since 1981 and was the highest number since 1977.
Between 1967-75, a period marked by draft dodgers fleeing the Vietnam War, there were at least 19,000 Americans who fled north each year.
While the number of Americans moving north jumped, the number of Canadians moving to the United States declined to 23,913 in 2006 from 29,930 in 2005.
The net loss to Canada of 12,971 was the smallest since 2003 and slightly more than half of the loss suffered by Canada as recently as 2001 when 24,089 more Canadians moved south than Americans moved north.
The two largest categories of U.S. immigrants were the family class and economic class and Jedwab says he believes the numbers will continue to rise because of the family class of immigration.
"Once you reach a certain critical mass, the family reunification numbers tend to keep the numbers increasing,'' he said.
There was a large jump in the number of American refugees in 2006, but those were largely Haitians who received refugee status in the United States then moved to Canada.
Ontario – particularly the GTA region – was the destination of more than half of the U.S. migrants, far outpacing British Columbia and Quebec, the second and third most popular destinations.
Perhaps the most surprising aspect of the study is the attention it has received in the United States where it was first reported by abcnews.com.
It has become a hit on the blogosphere where many Americans have reacted with venom to those who have left the country and some 80,000 persons voted on whether they would move to Canada within hours of the question being posted on an aol.com site.
"If every American who didn't like George W. Bush left the country, there would be no one here but illegal immigrants,'' one blogger wrote.
------------------------
From the CIC website (the immigration qualification test):
More Americans heading North
U.S. immigration to Canada at 30-year high, but fewer Canadians moving to United States
Aug 06, 2007 04:30 AM
Tim Harper
Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON–It was a popular vow of apprehensive Democrats in 2004, a pledge made in the heat of battle to move to Canada if George W. Bush was re-elected.
Turns out, some of them did.
An analysis of immigration statistics done by the Montreal-based Association for Canadian Studies showed the number of Americans who moved to Canada in 2006 hit a 30-year high, almost double the number who moved north in 2000 when Bush was elected for a first term as U.S. president.
The analysis also showed the southward brain drain is being narrowed somewhat, and most of the American migrants are highly educated people who may be moving to Canada for quality of life and social reasons.
The numbers were not huge – 10,942 Americans moved to Canada last year, far smaller than the influx predicted when bogus maps of the United States of Canada began hitting the Internet in the waning days of the 2004 campaign.
The day after Bush was re-elected president, there were 191,000 hits on Canada's immigration website, six times its average traffic, most of it from the U.S.
Websites sprouted explaining the mechanics of the Canadian immigration system, and Canadian women, tongues in cheek, offered to marry anti-war Americans.
But the increase is symbolic, said Jack Jedwab, the executive director of the association that analyzed the statistics. "Given that most of these immigrants are university-educated or better, you can assume they can find work in the U.S., so the move must be based on other reasons,'' Jedwab said.
Citizenship and Immigration Canada reported that 49.5 per cent of the Americans who migrated to Canada in 2006 had at least a bachelor's degree.
Jedwab said anecdotal information points to politics, health care, social issues, possibly even the strengthening Canadian dollar as lures northward, he said.
For 34-year-old labour organizer Tom Kertes, the move last April from Seattle, Wash., to Toronto was based on human rights.
"The words `human rights' are foreign words in the U.S.,'' Kertes said.
"They only apply to other countries.''
He moved to Toronto with his partner Ron Braun and the two plan to marry, something they could not do in Washington state.
He also cited the war in Iraq and the torture of Iraqi prisoners by Americans – and the failure of the Bush administration to clearly disavow such practice – as contributing factors to what is a major decision.
"Moving countries is not done lightly,'' he says.
He said he found the tolerance of Toronto welcoming and he thought Canadians were proud of their reputation for tolerance.
The 2006 figure marks the first time there have been more than 10,000 American migrants to Canada since 1981 and was the highest number since 1977.
Between 1967-75, a period marked by draft dodgers fleeing the Vietnam War, there were at least 19,000 Americans who fled north each year.
While the number of Americans moving north jumped, the number of Canadians moving to the United States declined to 23,913 in 2006 from 29,930 in 2005.
The net loss to Canada of 12,971 was the smallest since 2003 and slightly more than half of the loss suffered by Canada as recently as 2001 when 24,089 more Canadians moved south than Americans moved north.
The two largest categories of U.S. immigrants were the family class and economic class and Jedwab says he believes the numbers will continue to rise because of the family class of immigration.
"Once you reach a certain critical mass, the family reunification numbers tend to keep the numbers increasing,'' he said.
There was a large jump in the number of American refugees in 2006, but those were largely Haitians who received refugee status in the United States then moved to Canada.
Ontario – particularly the GTA region – was the destination of more than half of the U.S. migrants, far outpacing British Columbia and Quebec, the second and third most popular destinations.
Perhaps the most surprising aspect of the study is the attention it has received in the United States where it was first reported by abcnews.com.
It has become a hit on the blogosphere where many Americans have reacted with venom to those who have left the country and some 80,000 persons voted on whether they would move to Canada within hours of the question being posted on an aol.com site.
"If every American who didn't like George W. Bush left the country, there would be no one here but illegal immigrants,'' one blogger wrote.
------------------------
From the CIC website (the immigration qualification test):
Is this the equivalent of a regular, 4-year degree? They have 3-year and "2 or more" degrees, yet the most popular type is missing.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
"I think most Americans moving here (or at least a good proportion) move for primarily social and political reasons, rather than economic."
I believe you are correct however I just wanted to point out that there can be a real economic disincentive for Amercians to moving here but that this disincentive may be becoming less pronounced. Also, while we pat ourselves on the back (rightly or wrongly) on quality of life issues it must be acknowledged that we remain less competitive economically. It is definately not an easy decision to decide to move countries but here's the thing, if Canada offered both quality of life enhancement and economic advantage that 10,000 immigration figure would be more like 100,000.
I believe you are correct however I just wanted to point out that there can be a real economic disincentive for Amercians to moving here but that this disincentive may be becoming less pronounced. Also, while we pat ourselves on the back (rightly or wrongly) on quality of life issues it must be acknowledged that we remain less competitive economically. It is definately not an easy decision to decide to move countries but here's the thing, if Canada offered both quality of life enhancement and economic advantage that 10,000 immigration figure would be more like 100,000.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
You have a good point, and I agree that economics plays a part, but the economic disincentive has definitely grown significantly in recent years. Americans moving here a few years ago could have converted their savings into Canadian dollars and gotten 50% more. Now, that bonus is almost completely gone.
ganjavih
Senior Member
On the other hand, new Canadian dollars they'll be earning will be worth a lot more, which will make trips back home a lot easier.
Jitterbugg
New Member
Truthfully, I think that 10,000 number is embarassingly low. Out of 300,000,000 million Americans there are bound to be a few people for various reasons who end up in Canada.
Hell, there are way more Americans migrating to Mexico than Canada.
That same article states that 23,000 Canadians migrated south. If you factor in that Canada is roughly a tenth the population of the US. I don't think these numbers are anything to brag about.
I think most of these people are gay couples or ultra left wing people who just despise George Bush so much they can't take it any more.
Mot states that he was thinking about moving to the Maritimes, as someone from Nova Scotia I can tell you that it is not exactly the most progressive place on earth. Many cities in the US would be a gay nirvana compared to the Maritimes. I just read in the Globe this morning that the town of Truro (which is a fairly large centre by Maritimes standards) voted to not even fly the gay flag for pride - never mind a parade! I don't think people there are haters, they are just pathalogically attached to tradition (the old way is always the best way down east)
Really, there are many areas in the US that are socially quite similar to Toronto. (New England, San Fran, Oregon, NYC, etc, etc,) I honestly don't see why people would feel the need to move from the States to Canada for some sence of moral superiority.
Don't get me wrong - I think Toronto has a lot going for it and has the potential to be a truly GREAT city (If we don't screw it up)
Hell, there are way more Americans migrating to Mexico than Canada.
That same article states that 23,000 Canadians migrated south. If you factor in that Canada is roughly a tenth the population of the US. I don't think these numbers are anything to brag about.
I think most of these people are gay couples or ultra left wing people who just despise George Bush so much they can't take it any more.
Mot states that he was thinking about moving to the Maritimes, as someone from Nova Scotia I can tell you that it is not exactly the most progressive place on earth. Many cities in the US would be a gay nirvana compared to the Maritimes. I just read in the Globe this morning that the town of Truro (which is a fairly large centre by Maritimes standards) voted to not even fly the gay flag for pride - never mind a parade! I don't think people there are haters, they are just pathalogically attached to tradition (the old way is always the best way down east)
Really, there are many areas in the US that are socially quite similar to Toronto. (New England, San Fran, Oregon, NYC, etc, etc,) I honestly don't see why people would feel the need to move from the States to Canada for some sence of moral superiority.
Don't get me wrong - I think Toronto has a lot going for it and has the potential to be a truly GREAT city (If we don't screw it up)
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Toronto became home to more of the recent U.S. war deserters than any other Canadian city. That was also the case during the Vietnam-era when resisters and deserters settled here.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
That's what happens when we thump our chests about being able to take our tough winters.
Long Island Mike
Senior Member
I have thought of moving to CANADA myself....
Everyone: This news does not surprise me in the least-CANADA being the good country it is with its good way of life overall. The USA political situation definitely is an incentive to many people to leave the USA-with CANADA being a prime place to go to. I agree that Ontario is a prime place for people from the NE and Midwest USA to relocate to-Quebec's language hassles have kept anglophones away to some extent. If you can have life,liberty,the pursuit of happiness not to mention universal healthcare coverage-I for some time was one of the USAs 45 million or so uninsured-a travesty in my view-that needs to be changed in my lifetime-I hope. In closing I say WHY NOT? LI MIKE
Everyone: This news does not surprise me in the least-CANADA being the good country it is with its good way of life overall. The USA political situation definitely is an incentive to many people to leave the USA-with CANADA being a prime place to go to. I agree that Ontario is a prime place for people from the NE and Midwest USA to relocate to-Quebec's language hassles have kept anglophones away to some extent. If you can have life,liberty,the pursuit of happiness not to mention universal healthcare coverage-I for some time was one of the USAs 45 million or so uninsured-a travesty in my view-that needs to be changed in my lifetime-I hope. In closing I say WHY NOT? LI MIKE
dowlingm
Senior Member
So 10,000 Americans move north and 23,000 Canadians move south. So net loss to Canada is "only" 13,000.
Exciting stuff. I guess we're not worried because 12,999 are retirees going to spend their Canada Pension in Florida?
Exciting stuff. I guess we're not worried because 12,999 are retirees going to spend their Canada Pension in Florida?
Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
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bob says- "we owe the bank $50 million"
bill says - "fuck you bob! you're such a killjoy"
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Jitterbugg
New Member
This number doesn't even includes snowbirds.
Snowbirds are not immigrating - any Canadian can stay in US for 6 months a year as long as they don't work. Those numbers are for people becoming permanent residents.
I think there will always be a higher percentage of Canadians going south than Americans moving north - simply due to the milder climate and the unique opportunities that the US economy provides.
There are many thing I prefer about Canada but we don't have (and never will have) a Las Vegas Strip, a Wall Street, a NASA, a Silicon Valley, A Madison Ave, a Hollywood, etc, etc, etc, etc...
The US is the world's dominant player - It is not written in the stars that it will be forever. I personally think America is falling off a cliff, but it's economic/military power is so great that it will likely remain the top power for my lifetime.
Snowbirds are not immigrating - any Canadian can stay in US for 6 months a year as long as they don't work. Those numbers are for people becoming permanent residents.
I think there will always be a higher percentage of Canadians going south than Americans moving north - simply due to the milder climate and the unique opportunities that the US economy provides.
There are many thing I prefer about Canada but we don't have (and never will have) a Las Vegas Strip, a Wall Street, a NASA, a Silicon Valley, A Madison Ave, a Hollywood, etc, etc, etc, etc...
The US is the world's dominant player - It is not written in the stars that it will be forever. I personally think America is falling off a cliff, but it's economic/military power is so great that it will likely remain the top power for my lifetime.
dowlingm
Senior Member
except if NASA didn't have Canadarm they'd be fcuked right now