Not a 24 Hour City

[SunriseChampion]

So what's this definition of 24hr city then? I don't get it.

As far as I'm concerned, based on how I live, Toronto is already a 24hr city with the exceptions of regional transit, subway, and last call (I sometimes don't make it to the pub til midnight or later). You can't expect everything you could possibly think of to be open all night. You'd end up with ridiculous situations that are untenable like the failed 24hr Home Depot experiment. Cause if I can't get a 2X4 at 3am, I'm gonna shit!

 

[Automation Gallery]

You'd end up with ridiculous situations that are untenable like the failed 24hr Home Depot experiment.

Yeah, i heard it was a failure cause of all the shady contractor thiefs prowling during the night on an inexperienced staff. 24 hour places require experienced well paid staff and not just a bunch of new canadians making minimum wage that cant speak a word of english. In Toronto not to many places are willing to pay for a good all night staff.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I'm all for 24hr options. It's great having the option to buy or do anything at any time and I think this enhances the quality of life of everyone. On the other hand a city that was just pulsing day and night might sound cool for a vacation or when you are 19 but otherwise it might be the definition of hell on earth to actually live there.

My limited experience visiting New York I did not find it particularly 24hr. The streets were generally deserted by 2 am on a weekend. The exception perhaps were the parks in Manhattan that seemed full at night, although I think this was largely due to the heat wave and lack of A/C in apartments.

 

[Oliver Tweed]

Tokyo is a great example of a city that truly never sleeps. But greater Tokyo is close to 40 million people and has density that Toronto will thankfully never have.

 

[Torontovibe]

Most of the large European cities are quite lively after dark. I remember Spanish cities being full of huge crowds late at night. (all night) Paris and London have crazy crowds after dark, it's like a Nuit Blanch festival every night, all summer long, due to the hoards of tourists.

It's only in North America that the large cities are so dead at night. Ste. Catherine Street in Montreal is quite lively, day and night. Even 5am, you will see much more people than on Yonge Street at midnight. Even on the coldest nights, it was still quite busy. Montreal is probably the next closest to a 24 hr city in NA, after New York.

I noticed, on my last trip to Vancouver, a few years ago, that the streets have become much more lively at night. I thought it would be dead but there were small groups of people walking around even at 4 or 5 am, so it's getting a lot better.

I just wish Yonge Street would be livelier at night. It's pretty much a dead zone after 10pm. It was way more active at night, back in the 70's and 80's. What happened? lol

 

[ear2ear]

Yeah, i heard it was a failure cause of all the shady contractor thiefs prowling during the night on an inexperienced staff. 24 hour places require experienced well paid staff and not just a bunch of new canadians making minimum wage that cant speak a word of english. In Toronto not to many places are willing to pay for a good all night staff.

Home Depot experimented with staying open 24 hours because most stores used to already have a sizeable overnight staff receiving merchandise and packing it out onto shelves. They figured overnight customers wouldn't be looking for much in terms of customer service, just a cashier mainly. In the end I don't think it generated enough revenue to justify how much it inconvenienced the night crew trying to get a lot of machine work done in a short period of time.

 

[M5Vgirl]

I've spent a lot of time in NY for example and hope to move there in the near future. Toronto does have potential but still, not even close.

I've lived in NYC and loved every moment of it! When I returned to Toronto it was difficult (and almost devastating) to accept that I couldn't find a nice restaurant that served a 3 course meal past 11pm or I couldn't take clients to a happening lounge/bar on Monday night. Downtown streets get pretty much deserted after 9pm on most week nights and yes, there is the poorly designed transit system with limited hours and stops... I could go on and on.

But after a while I realized that Torontians are a much different breed than New Yorkers and because of the people and lifestyles, this city will NEVER be a New York. First off, people in Toronto can afford nice places to live - people actually buy their homes and furnish them well so they want to stay in them, have guests over and basically enjoy living there. In NYC, almost everyone rents and if you are a student or in your 20's, you are likely living in a closet size unit with no ammendities, no room to invite friends over and a view of a brick wall hence, the need to get out and stay out (creating demand for restaurants, Starbucks, etc. to close very late). Secondly, the working lifestyle is VERY DIFFERENT in NYC. They are the financial hub and lots of people work well beyond 9-5. I know lawyers and bankers that work at least 10 hours a day and the only time for them to shop, eat, unwind and have fun, etc. is after midnight so businesses have to cater and accomodate that group. Toronto or rather the GTA is also a city that is very spreadout. As you know, Manhattan is a tiny island with a population about 8 million I think (not incl the boroughs either) so there is way more demand for things to stay open late. Most people in TO leave after work to commute to the suburbs so it doesn't make the most profitable sense to keep establishments open until the wee hours. And of course, you have the millions of tourists visiting each year and when you have tourism at that caliber you have consumption (and when you snooze you lose so Starbucks has no choice but to stay open to remain competitive).

So yup, that's what I've come up with since moving back. I see Toronto really trying but you are right, it won't come close. New York will always be NY and that is what makes it so sought after and special. But Toronto is still a wonderful place to live in!

 

[golodhendil]

As you know, Manhattan is a tiny island with a population about 8 million I think (not incl the boroughs either) so there is way more demand for things to stay open late.

Manhattan has a population of 1.6 million (8 million is that of the entire NYC; of course a lot of them will probably go out in Manhattan) and has an area of 60 km^2 (10% of Toronto's).

 

[ladyscraper]

Manhattan has a population of 1.6 million

I'm glad someone corrected that 8 million in Manhattan thing. I almost laughed milk out of my nose reading that.

Some good points were raised though. People in New York that aren't extremely wealthy seem to work longer hours and get much worse living conditions for their money. I know this because my wife had a much worse life living there than she has here in Toronto. The funny thing was she made much more money there and still lived in a crappy apartment in a bad neighborhood. Here, she lives right downtown in a beautiful neighborhood. She always talks about how much more pleasant life is now. Makes me wonder if Toronto's constant growth will eventually lead us to something I don't like as much as what we have now.

 

[syn]

Most of the large European cities are quite lively after dark. I remember Spanish cities being full of huge crowds late at night. (all night) Paris and London have crazy crowds after dark, it's like a Nuit Blanch festival every night, all summer long, due to the hoards of tourists.

It's only in North America that the large cities are so dead at night. Ste. Catherine Street in Montreal is quite lively, day and night. Even 5am, you will see much more people than on Yonge Street at midnight. Even on the coldest nights, it was still quite busy. Montreal is probably the next closest to a 24 hr city in NA, after New York.

I noticed, on my last trip to Vancouver, a few years ago, that the streets have become much more lively at night. I thought it would be dead but there were small groups of people walking around even at 4 or 5 am, so it's getting a lot better.

I just wish Yonge Street would be livelier at night. It's pretty much a dead zone after 10pm. It was way more active at night, back in the 70's and 80's. What happened? lol

Yonge Street has quite a bit of retail. It's no surprise the street usually dies down after a certain time.

 

[M5Vgirl]

Manhattan has a population of 1.6 million (8 million is that of the entire NYC; of course a lot of them will probably go out in Manhattan) and has an area of 60 km^2 (10% of Toronto's).

Oops, sorry I meant all the boroughs + Manhattan included! Thanks for correction.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I just wish Yonge Street would be livelier at night. It's pretty much a dead zone after 10pm. It was way more active at night, back in the 70's and 80's. What happened? lol

Night life on Yonge Street died a slow death in the 90's and the beginning of this decade as the cinemas closed which would keep the streets alive until midnight or so, bars and nightclubs migrated away which would keep the street alive until 2:30-3am and with that went people who would walk and drive the downtown stretch to take in the vibe. There's not much of a vibe past 10pm anymore except for the Yonge & Dundas area.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Night life on Yonge Street died a slow death in the 90's and the beginning of this decade as the cinemas closed which would keep the streets alive until midnight or so, bars and nightclubs migrated away which would keep the street alive until 2:30-3am and with that went people who would walk and drive the downtown stretch to take in the vibe. There's not much of a vibe past 10pm anymore except for the Yonge & Dundas area.

Dont forget the massage parlours were all shut down. also the arcades and a couple big name record stores closed down.

 

[GenerationW]

Makes me wonder if Toronto's constant growth will eventually lead us to something I don't like as much as what we have now.

There's always a danger of that but the alternative (a shrinking downtown, etc.) is worse.

 

[Brandon716]

There is really only one city in North America that's a 24 hour city and that is New York. I would put Montreal and then Toronto as second and third but they are way behind New York. If you think Toronto is dead after midnight, go to Chicago or Boston. Toronto is thriving compared to both of them. Most restaurants close at 7pm in Chicago's Loop. I was quite surprised.

I found the above to be very true. I lived in Chicago for a brief time in spring 07 and the city, while great to be in, was pretty much dead in the loop after business hours.

But then again, even lower Manhattan is dead after business hours relatively speaking. Toronto, while no Manhattan, is still a step above any other American city.

And when you're only real competition is New York is there really much to complain about? Not really since New York is its own world.