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Next Mayor of Toronto?

Prometheus The Supremo

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Hmmm... If the Liberals merged with the NDP and shifted further to the left, the Convservatives could just get their federal majority.

The only way I could really see merger helping is if the NDP shifted to the right to become very Liberal-like, but my guess is that all that would do is strengthen the Green party.
the shift would need to be more to the right but not passing centre. a liberal-ndp party just slightly left of centre. it wouldn't strengthen the green party. the green party is slightly right of centre. they can join the liberal-ndp club too.

the worst thing to happen was the merger of the CRAParties. when there's 1 rightwing choice and many left wing choices, the rightwing will always prevail. in the next toronto mayoral election, the left needs to get unified behind one good candidate. fragmentation is a bitch.
 

Automation Gallery

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the problem with the left is that it is divided. remember how bad it was for the right when they were divided? now it's our turn. the liberals and ndp need to merge in order for the left to ever be relevant again.
Im confused...since when has the Liberals been classified as a left-wing party.:confused: By the way in this great country of ours most Liberals will jump to the right rather than the left.
 

Eug

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the shift would need to be more to the right but not passing centre. a liberal-ndp party just slightly left of centre.
The Liberals are already slight left of centre IMO at least on social issues, right where I like them to be. If they shifted further left, I might stop voting for them, at least in central Canada.

There are a lot of ideologically liberal but fiscally more conservative out there that like to vote for the Liberals.
 

salvius

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Im confused...since when has the Liberals been classified as a left-wing party.:confused: By the way in this great country of ours most Liberals will jump to the right rather than the left.
I don't think the second comment is really all that true -- the Liberal place on the spectrum has always been a moving target, often in a single mandate and I think that's just how most Liberal supporters like it. But Liberals are definitely not a left-wing party; in any case, broad left/right wing categorizations have never been terribly useful. Politics tends to be a bit more complex than that.
 

salvius

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the liberals shifted to far left actually...
I think that could only be if we defined an extremely narrow left/right political spectrum or if we changed the meaning of the spectrum in its entirety. The Liberals are nowhere near far left, provincially or federally.
 

Eug

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Ignatieff is the most right-wing leader the Liberals have had at the federal level since... I don't even know. He's very right-wing. Also really boring.
Heh, I almost forgot about him. Yeah, this guy doesn't inspire me, that's for sure. But that's because his charisma as a leader is rather lacking, as you say.

I didn't appreciate his being parachuted in to run either.
 

GraphicMatt

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Paul Martin was probably close to the perfect meld of fiscally conservative/socially liberal. Maybe the prototypical Liberal. Too bad about that whole sponsorship scandal thing.

Generally I think Liberals are pragmatists beyond anything else. They'll morph their politically views to match the prevailing winds. It's a good strategy - the CPC adopted it too after the merger.
 

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Sorry to be all uppity about a small thing, but it's only in the United States that liberalism means left. I don't understand why, particularly. Libertarians are liberals (it's right there in the name), the root word here is liberty.

From Wikipedia:
Liberty is the concept of ideological and political philosophy that identifies the condition to which an individual has the right to behave according to one's own personal responsibility and free will.

Hardly a leftist manifesto.

Libertarianism is actually more closely affiliated with Conservatism. (smaller government, less gov. intervention/regulation…) than with Liberalism. Trust me, or just ask any libertarian. Don't let the names fool you.
 

MetroMan

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Paul Martin was probably close to the perfect meld of fiscally conservative/socially liberal. Maybe the prototypical Liberal. Too bad about that whole sponsorship scandal thing.

Generally I think Liberals are pragmatists beyond anything else. They'll morph their politically views to match the prevailing winds. It's a good strategy - the CPC adopted it too after the merger.
I often find myself nostalgic for Paul Martin, hoping that he'll decide to come back. But in Canadian politics, you don't usually see beaten politicians coming back.

I'm putting my hopes on Gerard Kennedy and in the more distant future Justin Trudeau.
 

grey

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Moderates are the worst kind of wimpy children and voting for one is barely a step up from not voting at all.

Wahh the right are too scary, but I still don't want to pay for other peoples' healthcare. Better vote centrist.

We should push through this sex education reform bill... but what will those moderates think? They might vote us out! Ah well.

Moderates are a kid with a ball sitting between two ball-less soccer games and everyone's promising sweets for the ball instead of just beating him up.
 

Prometheus The Supremo

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Im confused...since when has the Liberals been classified as a left-wing party.:confused: By the way in this great country of ours most Liberals will jump to the right rather than the left.
left as in personal freedoms, more rights, tolerance, openness to new ideas, etc.

The Liberals are already slight left of centre IMO at least on social issues, right where I like them to be. If they shifted further left, I might stop voting for them, at least in central Canada.

There are a lot of ideologically liberal but fiscally more conservative out there that like to vote for the Liberals.
i'm not talking about the liberals moving way further left with regards to fiscal issues.

but rather the liberals be fiscal conservatives, i'd rather they be fiscally responsible. fiscal conservatism isn't always responsible in the sense that many times it contradicts its self. you don't save 1 dollar today only to lose 10 tomorrow. you need to be smart with money and not let ideology, heated emotion or symbolic gestures shape your financial policy. decisions need to be made on real analysis that take into consideration the big picture, the long term & the benefit. and in the end, society should be better off because of those decisions.

and one think i don't understand about fiscal conservatives is their classic line: "our children and grandchildren will be paying for it" which contradicts with their other classic line "nothing in life is free". yes our grandchildren and children will be paying for it but they will have something. just like how we are paying for the previous generations, we have a society filled with things to show for it.
 
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The_Waffler

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I'm putting my hopes on Gerard Kennedy and in the more distant future Justin Trudeau.
I'm not a Liberal in any sense, yet I respect the work Paul Martin did as Finance Minister, admittedly easier given the robust economy through much of the Cretan/Martin era, but he leveraged his support within the party to keep the Nations finances respectable. I still think taxes were too high, and they did alot of it by downloading on the Provinces, but that is another thread.

Hopefully by the time Kennedy and Trudeau are in a position to wreak havoc on the Nation, I'll have retired and gone south. For those here that hate Mike Harris, that sentiment is exactly how I feel about those two.
 

Coltaine79

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Libertarianism is actually more closely affiliated with Conservatism. (smaller government, less gov. intervention/regulation…) than with Liberalism. Trust me, or just ask any libertarian. Don't let the names fool you.
Libertarianism = Classical Liberalism, the father of which was John Locke, whose fingerprints are ALL OVER the U.S. Constitution.

I'm surprised you don't know this... it's very basic stuff. ;)

Instead of spending all your time on blogs and free republic, try reading some books.
 

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