News   Jul 12, 2024
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News   Jul 12, 2024
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News   Jul 12, 2024
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Next Mayor of Toronto?

Hypothetical polling is meaningless. It's easy to "run" from some background oasis without having to expose one's warts in public.

No doubt some Germans thought the guy after von Hindenburg would be one of the best German leaders ever!

Shout it out loud brother -- all Torontonians are equal, but some are more equal than others!

And when will "real Toronto" give the okay for "phony Toronto" to be on an equal footing?

That will never happen. See my split up thread GenW
 
Actually, it's not working at all. Because I need plastic bags to throw out garbage anyway. So instead of free ones, I am forced to buy them now. In the mean time, store efficiency drops since every time they have to ask me, do you want a bag? How many do you need? And then punch the numbers in. Of course, the province want another 8% (13% now?)on top of the 5 cents.
So you're saying that you haven't changed your behaviour at all?

I occasionally pop into a store while walking home from work. Three years ago I would always accept a bag, even if I was only buying a few things. Now I don't, I just throw the stuff in my backpack. . I don't know the last time I got one of those grey bags you get at convenience stores. It's just a nickel, but a pretty good demonstration of how user-pay systems decrease waste.

(Yes, I walk to work and I carry a backpack even though I'm years out of school. I guess I'm one of those "downtown elites"?)
I told you guys the street cars will be gone. And when Hudak becomes premier, Transit City will follow suit.
And of course the combined Hudak/Ford 20-year replacement plan will be a real stunner. At least it will feature fast construction times; it'll be finished the day it's announced.
 
So you're saying that you haven't changed your behaviour at all?

I occasionally pop into a store while walking home from work. Three years ago I would always accept a bag, even if I was only buying a few things. Now I don't, I just throw the stuff in my backpack. . I don't know the last time I got one of those grey bags you get at convenience stores. It's just a nickel, but a pretty good demonstration of how user-pay systems decrease waste.

(Yes, I walk to work and I carry a backpack even though I'm years out of school. I guess I'm one of those "downtown elites"?)

And of course the combined Hudak/Ford 20-year replacement plan will be a real stunner. At least it will feature fast construction times; it'll be finished the day it's announced.

Well, I did change my behaviour. I prefer Markham stores now if I happens to be close to there.

I always carry a backpack too, but I never threw out a plastic bag anyway. They are perfectly good bags for garbage, why throw them out?
 
Now now. The downtowners had their turn to ruin the burbs. It's only fair to get paid in kind.

It's precisely this kind of mentality that's caused outer 416 residents to feel alienated and is now propelling Ford skyward. Smugly suggesting that Scarborough residents are morons who don't know any better for suggesting that subways shouldn't end at random intersections (Kennedy/Eglinton) is a perfect example of this kind of attitude. Transit City's planners pretty much handed Ford Scarborough on a silver platter with the decision not to extend the subway to STC, something that's been a concern of Scarborough residents for years. Their smugness in rejecting the concerns of Scarborough residents pretty much confirmed the parochial attitude that downtowners have towards subarbnites (expressed so well in your post here).

And that's just one example.

You want to stop Ford? How about acknowledging for once that there's at least some legitimacy to the complaints that suburbanites have, instead of expressing panic that the same residents that downtowners have been dumping on for years will now have their turn at helm.

ps. I'm no Rob Ford fan. But I understand where his popularity is coming from. And I warned about it early on. I'd like to see somebody better in the big chair. But that'll only happen if candidates emerge who genuinely care about the concerns of voters, and are not insistent on playing the us vs. them, downtown vs. suburbs game.

Downtowners have tried to ruin the burbs? Mind explaining to me how exactly? Through the Tower Renewal project, to make sensible use of vast amounts of wasted space? The revitalization of neighbourhoods with large concetrations of public housing (like Lawrence Heights, which is in the burbs)? The "avenues" plan, designed to densify, diversify, and beautify the under-used major arterial roads across the inner burbs? The first realistic large scale transit plan designed to concentrate affordable rapid transit expansion almost entirely in the burbs, in order to finally make them less dependent on automobile travel? By encouraging massive development projects like Woodbine Live in the furthest reaches of Rexdale in order to infuse that dreary, long neglected part of the city with hundreds of millions of much needed investment? Oh yeah, sure sounds like Miller and his so-called downtown elite sure gave the burbs a big eff you, doesn't it? Besides, how can someone even attempt to ruin something that was already broken, or at least deeply flawed, right from the beginning?

As for you accusing me of displaying the "smug, parochial attitude of a downtowner towards the suburbs", I'll have you know that I live in Etobicoke. Have for many years. In a detached house in quiet area. And guess what - I even drive a car! Fancy that. By every definition I am a classic suburbanite. But it's precisely because of this experience that I can see just how deeply flawed the suburbs are and just how necessary it is for them to be transformed. Thankfully this change has been occuring consistently, despite the whining and cries of NIMBY's praying that their saviour Rob Ford will take them back to the "good 'ol days", when things were easier and simpler to understand than the increasingly complex world we live in.

And that's what this election really is about, isn't it? It's about change, a fundamental, historical change for Toronto, not about taxes and what-not, which it appears to be on the surface. Toronto is now at an age where it is on the cusp of a major new phase in its evolution. Miller, for all his flaws, recognized this, embraced it, and tried to get us there. Judging by the backlash we are now seeing in the rise of Rob Ford, evidently many people are not ready for this transition, and feel threatened by it.

Ford represents a pathetic culture of fear, paranoia, and selfishness. His "vision" for the city is entirely negative, the product of a delusional, backward-thinking mentality.

And even as someone who has historically been right of centre on many issues, I find his mentality deplorable. Ford is an un-cultured, immature simpleton who sees everything in black and white. He is an embarrassment to conservatism, and should be the last kind of person given the privilege of running a cosmopolitan city of millions. I even feel somewhat ashamed that so many seemingly intelligent people, including many that I know personally, are incapable of, or unwilling to, see beyond his transparent schtick.

Thankfully I can rest somewhat assured that change will continue to flow no matter how hard he tries to stop it, and his shortsighted agenda will be largely hamstrung by the saner, thoughtful heads on council.

Ultimately, Ford and those who will vote for him are lying to themselves about a future they cannot stop.
 
Downtowners have tried to ruin the burbs? Mind explaining to me how exactly? Through the Tower Renewal project, to make sensible use of vast amounts of wasted space? The revitalization of neighbourhoods with large concetrations of public housing (like Lawrence Heights, which is in the burbs)? The "avenues" plan, designed to densify, diversify, and beautify the under-used major arterial roads across the inner burbs? The first realistic large scale transit plan designed to concentrate affordable rapid transit expansion almost entirely in the burbs, in order to finally make them less dependent on automobile travel? By encouraging massive development projects like Woodbine Live in the furthest reaches of Rexdale in order to infuse that dreary, long neglected part of the city with hundreds of millions of much needed investment? Oh yeah, sure sounds like Miller and his so-called downtown elite sure gave the burbs a big eff you, doesn't it? Besides, how can someone even attempt to ruin something that was already broken, or at least deeply flawed, right from the beginning?

As for you accusing me of displaying the "smug, parochial attitude of a downtowner towards the suburbs", I'll have you know that I live in Etobicoke. Have for many years. In a detached house in quiet area. And guess what - I even drive a car! Fancy that. By every definition I am a classic suburbanite. But it's precisely because of this experience that I can see just how deeply flawed the suburbs are and just how necessary it is for them to be transformed. Thankfully this change has been occuring consistently, despite the whining and cries of NIMBY's praying that their saviour Rob Ford will take them back to the "good 'ol days", when things were easier and simpler to understand than the increasingly complex world we live in.

And that's what this election really is about, isn't it? It's about change, a fundamental, historical change for Toronto, not about taxes and what-not, which it appears to be on the surface. Toronto is now at an age where it is on the cusp of a major new phase in its evolution. Miller, for all his flaws, recognized this, embraced it, and tried to get us there. Judging by the backlash we are now seeing in the rise of Rob Ford, evidently many people are not ready for this transition, and feel threatened by it.

Ford represents a pathetic culture of fear, paranoia, and selfishness. His "vision" for the city is entirely negative, the product of a delusional, backward-thinking mentality.

And even as someone who has historically been right of centre on many issues, I find his mentality deplorable. Ford is an un-cultured, immature simpleton who sees everything in black and white. He is an embarrassment to conservatism, and should be the last kind of person given the privilege of running a cosmopolitan city of millions. I even feel somewhat ashamed that so many seemingly intelligent people, including many that I know personally, are incapable of, or unwilling to, see beyond his transparent schtick.

Thankfully I can rest somewhat assured that change will continue to flow no matter how hard he tries to stop it, and his shortsighted agenda will be largely hamstrung by the saner, thoughtful heads on council.

Ultimately, Ford and those who will vote for him are lying to themselves about a future they cannot stop.

Well said! I too share a similar background, living mostly in Oakville, commuting to Toronto (via GO/TTC and sometimes car). have been since 1992. When I first started commuting, I used to think in a similar fashion of the 'suburban ideals'.. it wasn't until I started working around the world, in other countries (England/Germany/Belgium/Japan/HK) that I learned very quickly, how behingd the times our city/country/car culture had become. Those countries, have learned to cope, integrate and embrace the inevitable truth for sustaining their societies, and look & think outward, and not selfishly inward in their lifestyles and habits, allowing them to obtain & enjoy rich, enhanced lives.

People here still mix up quality vs quantity of life. Its short sighted and greedy.

EDIT: I have since migrated to mid town Toronto, and left my car in the suburbs.
 
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Downtowners have tried to ruin the burbs? Mind explaining to me how exactly? Through the Tower Renewal project, to make sensible use of vast amounts of wasted space? The revitalization of neighbourhoods with large concetrations of public housing (like Lawrence Heights, which is in the burbs)? The "avenues" plan, designed to densify, diversify, and beautify the under-used major arterial roads across the inner burbs? The first realistic large scale transit plan designed to concentrate affordable rapid transit expansion almost entirely in the burbs, in order to finally make them less dependent on automobile travel? By encouraging massive development projects like Woodbine Live in the furthest reaches of Rexdale in order to infuse that dreary, long neglected part of the city with hundreds of millions of much needed investment? Oh yeah, sure sounds like Miller and his so-called downtown elite sure gave the burbs a big eff you, doesn't it? Besides, how can someone even attempt to ruin something that was already broken, or at least deeply flawed, right from the beginning?

As for you accusing me of displaying the "smug, parochial attitude of a downtowner towards the suburbs", I'll have you know that I live in Etobicoke. Have for many years. In a detached house in quiet area. And guess what - I even drive a car! Fancy that. By every definition I am a classic suburbanite. But it's precisely because of this experience that I can see just how deeply flawed the suburbs are and just how necessary it is for them to be transformed. Thankfully this change has been occuring consistently, despite the whining and cries of NIMBY's praying that their saviour Rob Ford will take them back to the "good 'ol days", when things were easier and simpler to understand than the increasingly complex world we live in.

And that's what this election really is about, isn't it? It's about change, a fundamental, historical change for Toronto, not about taxes and what-not, which it appears to be on the surface. Toronto is now at an age where it is on the cusp of a major new phase in its evolution. Miller, for all his flaws, recognized this, embraced it, and tried to get us there. Judging by the backlash we are now seeing in the rise of Rob Ford, evidently many people are not ready for this transition, and feel threatened by it.

Ford represents a pathetic culture of fear, paranoia, and selfishness. His "vision" for the city is entirely negative, the product of a delusional, backward-thinking mentality.

And even as someone who has historically been right of centre on many issues, I find his mentality deplorable. Ford is an un-cultured, immature simpleton who sees everything in black and white. He is an embarrassment to conservatism, and should be the last kind of person given the privilege of running a cosmopolitan city of millions. I even feel somewhat ashamed that so many seemingly intelligent people, including many that I know personally, are incapable of, or unwilling to, see beyond his transparent schtick.

Thankfully I can rest somewhat assured that change will continue to flow no matter how hard he tries to stop it, and his shortsighted agenda will be largely hamstrung by the saner, thoughtful heads on council.

Ultimately, Ford and those who will vote for him are lying to themselves about a future they cannot stop.

Perhaps the greatest post I've read here.
 
Wow, we got so many righteous people. The only problem is that while you are entitled to your own opinions, which I don't particularly disagree with, it's another matter to force it onto other people. Calrissian said he moved to Mid town Toronto. Good for him. But if people in the suburb like their own ways, forcing them to change their ways only causes anger and resentment.

The biggest problem with Toronto's transit plan is that it's always pitched against drivers. It's absolutely unnecessary since transit serves drivers just as much as they server transit takers. Bicycle lanes are for drivers as much as they are for cyclists. Yet transit advocates try their best to paint drivers as their enemies and they refuse any inputs from drivers. The arrogance and self-righteousness made a win-win situation into a one vs. the other battlefield.

Guess what, the chickens are coming home to roost now.
 
Smitherman was actually very good in tonight's CP24 debate. On-message and on-point. He looked like he actually was fighting to win.

Sucks that it might be too late. If he had been showing fire like this from day one he probably wouldn't have the problems he's experienced.
 
Smitherman was actually very good in tonight's CP24 debate. On-message and on-point. He looked like he actually was fighting to win.

Sucks that it might be too late. If he had been showing fire like this from day one he probably wouldn't have the problems he's experienced.

Does it really matter? E-health, Eye examine v.s. Sex Change. I am sorry, but next.
 
So you're saying that you haven't changed your behaviour at all?

I occasionally pop into a store while walking home from work. Three years ago I would always accept a bag, even if I was only buying a few things. Now I don't, I just throw the stuff in my backpack. . I don't know the last time I got one of those grey bags you get at convenience stores. It's just a nickel, but a pretty good demonstration of how user-pay systems decrease waste.

(Yes, I walk to work and I carry a backpack even though I'm years out of school. I guess I'm one of those "downtown elites"?)

And of course the combined Hudak/Ford 20-year replacement plan will be a real stunner. At least it will feature fast construction times; it'll be finished the day it's announced.

That's the image they will portray. If its legit remains to be seen.
 
Downtowners have tried to ruin the burbs? Mind explaining to me how exactly? Through the Tower Renewal project, to make sensible use of vast amounts of wasted space? The revitalization of neighbourhoods with large concetrations of public housing (like Lawrence Heights, which is in the burbs)? The "avenues" plan, designed to densify, diversify, and beautify the under-used major arterial roads across the inner burbs? The first realistic large scale transit plan designed to concentrate affordable rapid transit expansion almost entirely in the burbs, in order to finally make them less dependent on automobile travel? By encouraging massive development projects like Woodbine Live in the furthest reaches of Rexdale in order to infuse that dreary, long neglected part of the city with hundreds of millions of much needed investment? Oh yeah, sure sounds like Miller and his so-called downtown elite sure gave the burbs a big eff you, doesn't it? Besides, how can someone even attempt to ruin something that was already broken, or at least deeply flawed, right from the beginning?

Lets review,
Tower Renewal project: Care to point out any towers that have been 'renewed'?

Revitalization of neighbourhoods with large concetrations of public housing (like Lawrence Heights, which is in the burbs): Wow that was fast, are they finished Lawrence Heights already? Seriously, it has been announced not completed.

The first realistic large scale transit plan designed to concentrate affordable rapid transit expansion almost entirely in the burbs, in order to finally make them less dependent on automobile travel?: OK another plan, with nothing to show for it. Besides, increasingly people who live in the burbs work outside the city. TC is going (if/when) the wrong way. If they really wanted to help, maybe they could have had a tax climate that would have preserved or encouraged employment growth close by.

The "avenues" plan, designed to densify, diversify, and beautify the under-used major arterial roads across the inner burbs?: And as the city's Mid-Rise symposium clearly showed, there are multiple stumbling blocks to remake the Avenues as envisioned. Which is why they haven't been.

By encouraging massive development projects like Woodbine Live in the furthest reaches of Rexdale in order to infuse that dreary, long neglected part of the city with hundreds of millions of much needed investment?: IIRC the TIEG grants necessary to make this plan viable was not enthusiastically supported by the left on council. Keep in mind that that it was the very tax rates on commercial development that had a larger effect outside of the CDB that were the problem in the first place. Since it was not as much as a problem for downtown, the problem did not get the attention it deserved. This is has been an administration overly concerned with optics. after all.

Rob Ford will have an easy time reciprocating in kind. All he has to do is blow smoke up the ass of the downtown set.
 
I guess it's because I've paid for bags in other parts of the province -- lots of the big retailers went province-wide, figuring they'd have to eventually I guess. There's a voluntary provincial plastic bag reduction strategy, and from what I have seen at the store level, it's working. Trust someone like Ford to want to go after something like that ... for what purpose I don't know.

retailers took it provincewide to take advantage of the toronto media profile.....as shown above, because it was on toronto tv everyone thought it was a tax they had to pay......so now everyone pays.....Rob Ford did not (as far as I know) say he would get rid of this...just look at where the money goes. sounds like he wants it for the city.

he may not make a good mayor....but there seems to be a lot of misrepresentation of what he is saying in this thread....and then to, basically, call anyone who would vote for him a homophobe is disgusting (IMO).
 
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In the National Post Q&A he said he'd both consider getting rid of it or at least looking at where the money goes. And it's a fee, not a tax. Personally, I think it should be higher than 5 cents.

And to echo what a number of OPs have said, great post last night, Towered.

Listening to the debate last night, I wanted to put both Ford & Pantalone in a corner for not allowing other people to speak. I despise the tactic of speaking over someone. I find it rude, childish and unnecessary. Pantalone's garden metaphor was wearing thin by the end of the night, Ford looked like he wanted to explode at a couple of points, Thomson doesn't seem to have enough fire, Smitherman came off well and I'm not sure what to think of Rossi. JMO.
 

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