New Transit Funding Sources

[aquateam]

Well perhaps if you read the originating quote, you'd understand what follows:
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Paul gets this exactly as I do:


I think you'd best make your case to Ms Crombie, Aqua.

So she's proposing that Missisauga get part of Toronto's tolls, not actually introducing any new tolls in Missisauga. That doesn't change my point that what you've suggested (Missisauga tolling roads) doesn't work because there are no suitable roads in Missisauga to toll.

And btw: As discussed prior in this string, and made clear in the Toronto and Municipal Acts and elsewhere, there's absolutely no necessity for the thoroughfares to have to be "downloaded". In fact, the DVP has always been a Metro creation, as was the Gardiner to the Humber, the only provincial section being from the Humber west, technically the QEW at its inception.

It is a necessity for it to be downloaded in the sense that it is necessary for the municipality to OWN the highway. Missisauga can't toll access to a provincial asset that it doesn't own or maintain, i.e. every freeway within its borders.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

So she's proposing that Missisauga get part of Toronto's tolls, not actually introducing any new tolls in Missisauga. That doesn't change my point that what you've suggested (Missisauga tolling roads) doesn't work because there are no suitable roads in Missisauga to toll.
It is a necessity for it to be downloaded in the sense that it is necessary for the municipality to OWN the highway. Missisauga can't toll access to a provincial asset that it doesn't own or maintain, i.e. every freeway within its borders.

Haha, getting part of the toll? Posturing is cute, but her idea is idiotic - I mean, I don't see Sauga asking for a portion of the 407 revenues.

If she really wanted a piece of the action, she should petition the province to download Mississauga's portion of the QEW, and maybe then come to an agreement with Toronto to collect the toll perhaps on a by distance basis both ways? She would at least capture users from Toronto in that scenario.

AoD

 

[amnesiajune]

Her Majesty's loyal opposition must always behave as a government in waiting; not only critiquing the government of the day, but ready to be in government with a set of viable alternative policies.

The "loyal" part just means that they aren't allowed to attack the royal family, judges, juries or courts. They have to be loyal to any part of government that isn't under parliamentary oversight.

 

[Palma]

The toll rate should be set at the current price of a TTC token (or future Presto fare), with any increase in one triggering an automatic increase in the other. I wonder how willing Council would be to raise TTC fares if it also meant raising toll prices.

again as the majority of users on DVP/Gardnier are from outside Toronto, why would council care if tolls increase?

 

[gweed123]

again as the majority of users on DVP/Gardnier are from outside Toronto, why would council care if tolls increase?

Because there still are many people from inside the City of Toronto who use the Gardiner or DVP on a daily basis.

 

[Euphoria]

Only 40 percent of users are from outside Toronto. The majority of users are Torontonians.

 

[sixrings]

I would never think renforth to uofTscarborough campus was a stub. But both the western and eastern extensions are just unfunded plans at the time. Currently I look at eglinton west to weston is a stub no different than the current Sheppard line. But I say that as someone who lives at eglinton west and really needs the line to get to at least Kipling for my own commute as well as someone who grew up while the Sheppard subway was being built with plans of it extending east to agincourt where I was brought up. So yes my post is built on personal biases and disappointments.

In what world is a 45 km rapid transit line a stub (Renforth to UTSC)? That's 15 km longer than the Yonge Line. Even without Crosstown East, Eglinton Line will "only" be 30 km (the same length as the Yonge Line).

 

[Palma]

Only 40 percent of users are from outside Toronto. The majority of users are Torontonians.

those are not the stats I have seen. How to you explain comments that the tolls will not hurt Tory at re-election time since thew people they will affect (non-Torontonians) will not be voting in Toronto?

 

[gweed123]

How to you explain comments that the tolls will not hurt Tory at re-election time since thew people they will affect (non-Torontonians) will not be voting in Toronto?

Pundits with incorrect facts and a myopic view of the actual issue?

 

[crs1026]

I'm not sure where this "x% of...." logic takes us. Some percentage of people at Blue Jays games are from the 905. Does that mean that everyone else gets free tickets?

The point here is - if you use a scarce resource, you pay a fee for doing so. The fee does not reflect "cost", it reflects scarcity versus demand. The "owner" of the resource gets to pocket any profit in what you pay. Ideally, the price maintains demand at just below supply - ie tolling maintains the demand for roads at one car below full.

Did we all contribute in the past to building the resource? Some more than others, but yes. Does that mean we get to use the resource for free from now on? Nope. I pay my Rogers bill every month, and Rogers pays for the Blue Jays' payroll. I still have to buy a ticket. (If you do a little research, you will find that the Blue Jays are NOT a profit center with a balance sheet. They are budget-based. The revenue goes somewhere else).

People just don't like the idea of having to pay for something that used to be free. No amount of logic will make them feel good about that transition. But - the sooner we start making road use follow the laws of supply and demand (and price) - the more efficient and affordable our transportation system will be.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

Talking about baseball players and their salary, from this link:

(Babe) Ruth’s $80,000 1930 salary adjusts with inflation to $1,086,882 in 2012 dollars.

 

[Adjei]

This guy ha no clue:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ect-tolls-on-gardiner-don-valley-parkway.html

 

[Cobra]

“Life is hard under the Liberals. Families can’t afford this new toll tax,” Brown told reporters on the front lawn of Queen’s Park on Tuesday.

“This isn’t about John Tory. This is about Kathleen Wynne’s underfunding of municipalities,” he said.

Brown, who will introduce a motion in the Legislature on Thursday to derail Tory’s scheme, said a Conservative government would make up for the lost toll revenue by managing infrastructure dollars better.

-Patrick brown

“If Patrick Brown is trying to score cheap political points in the 905, maybe he should have championed a plan to fix people’s commutes into Toronto,” Amanda Galbraith, Tory’s director of communications, said in an email.

“Now, he needs to explain to Toronto residents why he’s happy to let them live in a city that can’t afford to fight traffic or build transit,” said Galbraith.

“With a toll of around $2, drivers can contribute to better roads and transit, ease congestion and speed up their own travel times. This is what the public wants done. This is the way we get there. It’s a smart, prudent, fiscally conservative plan — something the Ontario PCs used to get behind,” she said.

- Amanda Galbraith, Tory’s director of communications

“Today’s stunt by Patrick Brown makes it painfully clear that the Conservatives ‎have no plan to invest in transit and transportation infrastructure, and are unwilling to work as partners with municipalities,” Del Duca said in a statement.

“Instead of holding a press conference to explain his plan to relieve congestion and invest in transit, Brown decided it was more important to criticize the approach of an elected mayor, a mayor who has a plan to fight congestion in the city of Toronto by investing in transportation.”

-Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca

“Mr. Brown needs to tell the residents of Toronto what his plan is.”

“Why does he want Toronto to choke on traffic? If he doesn’t, how is he going to pay for transit and fix our traffic? Double-digit tax increases? Selling hydro? Or will he restore the 50-per-cent operating funding for the TTC that the last PC government cut? Will he propose to upload the social housing that was previously downloaded onto all Ontario municipalities?” said Bailao.

“What we have in front of us is a plan to build transit and fix the traffic that is strangling our city,” she said, adding that council only had three choices.

“We could raise property taxes across the city between five and 10 per cent, devastating many seniors and other homeowners. We could sell city assets like Toronto Hydro, something the city can only do once and would not provide a sustainable source of funding.

“Instead, we are looking at other sources of revenue, including road tolls which is fair, transparent, impacts the least amount of Toronto residents and brings in steady money to build transit projects over the long-term.”

-Councillor Ana Bailao

Glad that the Liberals and the city are in this together

 

[TheTigerMaster]

There we have it folks. Brown has no plans to fund transit expansion.

 

[salsa]

There we have it folks. Brown has no plans to fund transit expansion.

Patrick Brown says if elected he will revoke provincial permission to toll Gardiner & DVP. Look at this guy, just so pathetic.