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Moss Park / Queen & Sherbourne

slicecom said:
Olympos Crow Bar, at the corner of Princess and Adelaide is closing after 47 years. http://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2016/03/toronto_diner_closing_after_half_a_century_in_business/
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Can I say although quite close, Princess/Adelaide is not part of Moss Park neighhourbood, and indeed is completely different from it. The entire Adelaide East is different from Queen East (east of Church st). You have to go north of Richmond at least to be in Moss Park and feel the poverty and seediness. Most of Adelaide is pretty much gentrified already. Queen E is far from it.
 
ksun said:
Can I say although quite close, Princess/Adelaide is not part of Moss Park neighhourbood, and indeed is completely different from it. The entire Adelaide East is different from Queen East (east of Church st). You have to go north of Richmond at least to be in Moss Park and feel the poverty and seediness. Most of Adelaide is pretty much gentrified already. Queen E is far from it.
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Agreed, although I believe technically it is in Moss Park, which extends as far southeast as King and Parliament by some measures (TREB considers that the boundary of Moss Park; I work in Real Estate and had an agent with a listing in the condo at King & Parliament who was horrified that it was technically classified as Moss Park), but I couldn't find an "Old Town" neighbourhood node. Not sure where else it would fit.
 
slicecom said:
Agreed, although I believe technically it is in Moss Park, which extends as far southeast as King and Parliament by some measures (TREB considers that the boundary of Moss Park; I work in Real Estate and had an agent with a listing in the condo at King & Parliament who was horrified that it was technically classified as Moss Park), but I couldn't find an "Old Town" neighbourhood node. Not sure where else it would fit.
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TREB is pretty absurd. King East has a completely different vibe and probably demographic from Queen East between Yonge and DVP. King/Parliament is more similar to St Lawrence market area than Moss Park. It is a completely gentrified if not posh area. I would consider Moss Park to be bound by Jarvis, Parliament, Queen and Dundas - maybe Gerrard. Extending the definition northward is more reasonable than southward. Adelaide st and south doesn't have a Moss Park vibe at all. It is like Bloor E/Jarvis is not St Jamestown despite the proximity.
 
ksun said:
TREB is pretty absurd. King East has a completely different vibe and probably demographic from Queen East between Yonge and DVP. King/Parliament is more similar to St Lawrence market area than Moss Park. It is a completely gentrified if not posh area. I would consider Moss Park to be bound by Jarvis, Parliament, Queen and Dundas - maybe Gerrard. Extending the definition northward is more reasonable than southward. Adelaide st and south doesn't have a Moss Park vibe at all. It is like Bloor E/Jarvis is not St Jamestown despite the proximity.
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I agree with what you're saying, but taking all that into account, which of the existing neighbourhood nodes would this best fit in? I think Moss Park is the only one that comes close.
 
I recently moved to the area - on Sherbourne between Richmond and Adelaide. Just have a few rules I follow:
1) I usually stay south of Richmond when walking between Jarvis and Sherbourne (especially at night).
2) When I walk to work (near the Eaton Centre), I walk west on Richmond until Church, before heading up to Queen. Adelaide is a nicer option and King (although a little out of the way) is the best.
3) When I want to take my dog to a park, it's St. James, Orphan's Green or David Crombie. I don't go near Moss Park - just don't feel comfortable there yet.
4) I used to avoid the Tim Horton's at Richmond and Sherbourne as there were typically sketchy individuals inside and out, especially before 9am. Since the place got a security guard, the situation is much better.
5) I am looking forward to a revitalization of Moss Park. It's a shame to have such a large, urban green space but not feel comfortable using it.

I should qualify that I have lived in the neighbourhood for only 8 months after most of my life in the west suburbs. I think the stark change was a bit of a shock to the system. But I am settling in much better and while there are certainly improvements, the area has not been better or worse than I expected. But from what I am seeing and reading, it will only be improving in the next few years.
 
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That Tim Hortons has gotten a lot better than say, 4 years ago - with or without security guard. Too bad their coffee seems to have gotten worse. :(
 
TheKingEast said:
Most are harmless there... Just have to be alert. Coming from the suburbs though, I could see how you'd feel even more nervous.
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I play tennis at Moss Park very frequently. The area is definitely not nice, but hardly dangerous. There are plenty of junkies, crazies and other white trashes (forgive my word but they all appear to be white) who urinate against walls and trees every day, but in general I never felt unsafe. Holding a tennis racket might have helped too.

Gentrification, if ever a good thing, will be a fantastic idea here. When an area makes most Torontonians uncomfortable even walking there, it is a problem with the area, not the people.
 
Baileyq said:
I recently moved to the area - on Sherbourne between Richmond and Adelaide. Just have a few rules I follow:
1) I usually stay south of Richmond when walking between Jarvis and Sherbourne (especially at night).
2) When I walk to work (near the Eaton Centre), I walk west on Richmond until Church, before heading up to Queen. Adelaide is a nicer option and King (although a little out of the way) is the best.
3) When I want to take my dog to a park, it's St. James, Orphan's Green or David Crombie. I don't go near Moss Park - just don't feel comfortable there yet.
4) I used to avoid the Tim Horton's at Richmond and Sherbourne as there were typically sketchy individuals inside and out, especially before 9am. Since the place got a security guard, the situation is much better.
5) I am looking forward to a revitalization of Moss Park. It's a shame to have such a large, urban green space but not feel comfortable using it.

I should qualify that I have lived in the neighbourhood for only 8 months after most of my life in the west suburbs. I think the stark change was a bit of a shock to the system. But I am settling in much better and while there are certainly improvements, the area has not been better or worse than I expected. But from what I am seeing and reading, it will only be improving in the next few years.
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It is always a good idea to avoid seedy streets such as Queen East, Dundas East, Sherbourne, Penbroke etc. So if you need to go from the east to downtown, the strategy is to walk along an E-W street north of Carlton, or South of Richmond (like you do) all the way to at least Church, and then head south or northward to wherever you need to be. Just avoid the area bound by Church/Carlton/Queen.

Moss Park despite its seediness, is well used in the summer. Both the tennis courts and the baseball field are very busy. It should definitely be revitalized. A park is not supposed to make people like you "uncomfortable". It should make the riff-raff out of place, at least feel uneasy to just pee on a tree, or just lie on the grass with half the butt revealed and food and soda cans along with garbage on the ground as if they own the place.
 
The Moss Park complex itself is probably the safest place in the area through which to walk at night. It's deliberately very well lit and has a steady stream of residents and others there with surveillance cameras. It's not a likely spot where one would commit a crime.

I am moving back to the immediate vicinity after spending several years out west in Mississauga. I was in Regent Park before leaving (Cabbagetown before that). I am looking forward to being adjacent to Moss Park. It's such a convenient place to live.
 
Jonny5 said:
The Moss Park complex itself is probably the safest place in the area through which to walk at night. It's deliberately very well lit and has a steady stream of residents and others there with surveillance cameras. It's not a likely spot where one would commit a crime.

I am moving back to the immediate vicinity after spending several years out west in Mississauga. I was in Regent Park before leaving (Cabbagetown before that). I am looking forward to being adjacent to Moss Park. It's such a convenient place to live.
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I would take the Moss Park area over a tree lined upscale residential street in Mississauga any day. Even Pokémons don't go to Mississauga, LOL.
 
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