More CCTV Cameras in the Downtown Core?

[Arob]

Toronto's Police Chief Bill Blair wants to triple the number of closed-circuit TV cameras available to monitor the city's downtown and neighbourhoods.

On Monday Nov 15 meeting (at the Police Services Board), Chief Bill Blair said he wants to purchase 52 of the 77 cameras police rented during the G20 summit in June.

There are already 24 cameras in use, most of them in the downtown entertainment district.

A decision will be made by the board in January.

NOW I WONDER, DOES THE PUBLIC HAVE ACCESS TO THE FOOTAGE? Can we demand it under some kind of Freedom of Information Act? just curious. My concerns are obvious, esp because of what happened in G20. This police chief has proven that what's good for his police force is not necessarily good for Toronto.

These cameras were used during the G20 when police committed countless atrocities against peaceful protesters and not one frame was ever used to bring any of them to justice, but yet the same videos were scoured by law enforcement agents for use against the protesters.

 

[nfitz]

Seems like a bizarre idea, given how ineffective the cameras have proven in England to either preventing or prosecuting crime.

And do we really want Toronto to turn into the kind of police state England is?

 

[Peepers]

I would not be opposed to this on privacy grounds since we do not have an expectation of privacy in public. What would concern me - and should concern everyone - is that the police would rely on the cameras instead of doing their job and catching criminals in the act. This is exactly what happened during the G20. We had 10,000 cops in riot gear who stood by idly and watched as vandals broke windows just one block away. None of the vandals were arrested in the act of committing their crimes. Arrests would only come after police spent weeks reviewing 100's of videos taken by them or uploaded to You Tube. Of course most of the real vandals kept their faces well hidden so they will completely escape punishment for their crimes. Is this how we want our laws enforced?

 

[Automation Gallery]

to turn into the kind of police state England is?

What , thats the first i heard of.

 

[grey]

What , thats the first i heard of.

England is wired for video. CCTVs are absolutely everywhere in the cities. London is famous for it and there have been numerous pop culture references to it in shows like The Simpsons.

It's, ironically, very "Big Brother" over there.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

And do we really want Toronto to turn into the kind of police state England is?

Since when did England become a police state?! Did I miss something on BBC or The National?

I'm all for both police and privately installed cameras in public places especially problem neighbourhoods, they can often help solve crimes. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[nfitz]

Since when did England become a police state?! Did I miss something on BBC or The National?

It's been happening slowly since Thatcher became PM. The Labour government has been suprisingly authoritarian.

The country has been becoming surprisingly Orwellian.

Here's an article from Bloomberg that gives you a taste of a bit of it ... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a42059fKpkSM

 

[editor51]

I think to consider putting camras in to areas like Regent Park which is mostly government housing is worth exploring since we subsidize their living costs. I would keep them in the club districts as atool to help keep an eye on things but I will be hesitent to allow them anywhere else.

 

[nfitz]

I think to consider putting camras in to areas like Regent Park which is mostly government housing is worth exploring since we subsidize their living costs.

Doubleplusungood!

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

It's been happening slowly since Thatcher became PM. The Labour government has been suprisingly authoritarian.

The country has been becoming surprisingly Orwellian.

Here's an article from Bloomberg that gives you a taste of a bit of it ... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a42059fKpkSM

I knew England had one of the highest camera rates per person but the purposes for which the camera systems are being used (people skipping off work, litterbugs etc.) and the level of spying on private citizens really surprised me, but this still isn't a police state. When used for law enforcement purposes I'm fine with cameras, but the level of public surveillance in public areas in the UK is shocking and I for one would be raving mad if the lines began to blur and were used to similar tactics here.
Good link by the way, thanks.

 

[doady]

Ironically, in England, the police have harassing and arresting lots of photographers for no reason as well. UK police use more cameras, but at the same time they try to restrict on civilians use of cameras.

Police order photographer to 'delete' pictures
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.u..._pictures_at_tourist_hotspot_news_180714.html

Photographer films his own 'anti-terror' arrest
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/21/photographer-films-anti-terror-arrest

Birmingham police officer 'forced press photographer to delete images'
http://www.epuk.org/News/818/police-officer-forced-photographer-to-delete-images

Italian student tells of arrest while filming for fun
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/15/italian-student-police-arrest-filming

Young photojournalist detained for army cadet pics
http://www.bjp-online.com/british-j...9526/photojournalist-detained-army-cadet-pics

Snapper arrested for taking news pics
http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/photo/2006/09sep/060921mk.shtml

Injured photographer wins settlement, costs and apology from Met Police
http://www.epuk.org/News/811/vallee-accepts-met-settlement

U.K. Photographers Protest Police Harassment
http://theonlinephotographer.typepa...-photographers-protest-police-harassment.html

 

[junctionist]

For now, it doesn't seem like this surveillance trend is leading to abuse, though it's certainly possible as it spreads and becomes more commonplace. I just hope that Toronto Police stop using those ugly camera systems with the big box with their logo on it. They look very imposing and remind me of something you might see in a U.S. city with a high rate of crime. Simply put, when I see something like that particular camera system and the Notice sign in an area under surveillance, I wonder if the area is safe. The cameras should look like a building surveillance camera, with any other components integrated or hidden from view.

 

[Arob]

Well I dont mind if they put these cameras up... But I would like to be able to REQUEST and RECEIVE footage from them. The public should have access to the footage JUST LIKE THEY DO IN ENGLAND. That way we could access the footage that was recorded during events and watch both the police and the public.

If we had access to the footage from these cameras during G20 then we would see 1) the cop cars that were abandon so they could be burnt on TV and, 2) the illegal searches that were encouraged by Chief Bill Blair and 3) of course all of the police brutality which the residents of Toronto will never forget. or forgive.

 

[Automation Gallery]

) of course all of the police brutality which the residents of Toronto will never forget. or forgive.

Hahaha, police brutality ..now thats a good one.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Privacy watchdogs can fight about the details with respect to privacy rights. But what I want to know is:

-will the cameras enhance productivity and help us reduce or at least contain the police budget?
-will these images produce results in terms of not only prosecuting criminals but preventatively detering crime in the first place?

If the answer is yes I say go for it.