Monorail for Toronto

[ssiguy2]

More good monorail news............
Makassar Indonesia which has about 1.35 million has signed a letter of understanding to it's first mass transit system.
The system will be 30km and construction will begin in early 2012 and the entire line will be finished by 2015. A manufacturer has not be chosen.

 

[EnviroTO]

Not sure exactly where you are getting significantly lower capacity from. The Innovia 300 can handle about 500 passengers crush loaded into 4 cars (http://www.monorails.org/pdfs/INNOVIA 300.pdf).

Every other vehicle that gets rated for standing capacity is measured at 4pass/m^2 so that 500 number isn't worth much. The only reason it has the capacity it does at 4pass/m^2 is because it is longer and wider, however the fact that it has a two big tires sticking up in the middle of each car means they require it to be longer and wider to carry the same number of people and makes it impossible to walk through the vehicle. Like I said, if it is above ground then it makes sense because it actually is cheaper, but obviously longer stations and wider tunnels are not cheaper underground, and obviously at the surface a big concrete guideway isn't as flexible and affordable either.

The quality of the running surface plays a greater role into the comfort than the material used.

Yes and welded steel tracks create a fairly smooth running surface. It is also a running surface that creates less resistance and uses less energy which is why all high-speed ground transportation runs on rails.

There are times when a subway ride is about as smooth as a bus ride due to the age of the rails and the suspension on the trains.

I frequently ride the subway standing up without holding the handrail during packed conditions and I wouldn't dare do that on a bus. The only time a subway jostles around is over switches and in places it is forced to go slow like major curves and entering the station.

 

[Justin10000]

I frequently ride the subway standing up without holding the handrail during packed conditions and I wouldn't dare do that on a bus. The only time a subway jostles around is over switches and in places it is forced to go slow like major curves and entering the station.

The train hardly jostles over the new crossover between College/Dundas.

 

[ssiguy2]

Sao Paulo's 100km new monorail system to be completed by 2021 will have capacity levels of 45,000 pphpd ...............that should put an end to this idea that monorail doesn't have subway capacity.

 

[ssiguy2]

More good news from Brazil.
Bombardier has made a proposal for a new 31 km 2 line monorail system for Rio with both being completed in time for the 2016 Olympics.
Already, with Sao Paulo, I think Bombardier is starting to give up on any new plans for it's ART which , although a reliable system, has never really taken off and compared to it's new Innovia Monorail system is both inferior and more expensive. It is clear that Bombardier wants to get a stranglehold on the SA market.
It's interesting to note that Queen's Park just gave Bombardier $15 million for a portion of a new monorail test track in Kingston and the Sao Paulo trains will be produced in Kingston.
Here is a link for the short article but please note the link provided by Bombardier to it's Youtube animation of the line. You can definately see how slender the pillions are and, unlike elevated SkyTrain, Metro, or LRT, cast very, very little shawdow on the roadway. They are far less visually intrusive than other elevated systems and unlike the others can have greenery underneath them. The entire corridor can be made to be quite pleasing and yet taking up far less room than any other system or at grade LRT.
You get a great view of the trains, stations, and can see how, due to the track being built off site, would be much easier and require far less time to construct.
Even if you hate monorails it's an interesting watch and is the first video I have seen of the new Bombardier Innovias.
It wouldn't be near as note worthy to most Torontonians except this is Bombardier which, despite the useless public relations exercise of trying to look for competitive tenders for rolling stock, Toronto has a proprietary supplier..........Bombardier.
Give it a look.......it's newest news release at monorails.org

 

[Mapleson]

Don't like to cover the monorail bankrupty stories?

Las Vegas Monorail Bankrupt: Expand or Close by 2019
Pennsylvania High Speed Maglev Project: Maglev Inc files Chapter 11

 

[ssiguy2]

Las Vegas monorail was a PRIVATE concern and was not at all connected to the local transit system and Maglev is intercity transit not urban transit. Neither of those systems have anything to do with urban transit systems or operations.
Anyway, any comments on the Innovia system?

 

[Mapleson]

Las Vegas monorail was a PRIVATE concern and was not at all connected to the local transit system and Maglev is intercity transit not urban transit. Neither of those systems have anything to do with urban transit systems or operations.
Anyway, any comments on the Innovia system?

Of course they are private concerns, who heard of a public utility going bankrupt? It costs $5 for a 2-hour pass on the bus and $5 for a trip on the monorail, competitive pricing.

Shouldn't a private ventures have more cost-effective urban operations? A local transit system including all transit options whether publicly-funded or privately-operated. Las Vegas used the Innovia system for their airport monorail, but I guess it wasn't cost effective to link the old system to the new one.

 

[ssiguy2]

It was essentially just built as a tourist ride. that may change if it is at some point extended to LV Airport.

Anyway..........that's a great video. Really shows how elevated monorail is much more urban friendly than anyother system.

 

[jje1000]

When I visited Las Vegas, I wondered why the monorail was relegated to the back side of the strip instead of running down the middle. You literally needed to walk through entire casinos to get to the monorail. Moreso, since it ran behind the casinos, all you could see were the massive parking structures and maintenance facilities for all the casinos (no glitzy lights or touristy things).

That's probably why it's going to fail. It's definitely not something to draw inspiration from.

 

[Mapleson]

It was essentially just built as a tourist ride. that may change if it is at some point extended to LV Airport.
Anyway..........that's a great video. Really shows how elevated monorail is much more urban friendly than anyother system.

So you mean unless a monorail is incorporated into an existing transit system, it might not actually be urban friendly? Was there a benefit in Las Vegas' system being a monorail or does system design have more to do with being urban friendly than the number of vehicle/runningway interfaces?

 

[ssiguy2]

The LV Monorail is not urban friendly..............it goes behind most attractions upagainst parking lots, is of no use to the locals as the fare which is $5 is not transferrable to the local transit system, and essentially just connects the casinos. That in itself is also a bad idea as most tourists going from venue to venue do so in small groups so it works out to be substantially more than a cab and tourists who don't cab it ussually walk "to take in the strip".
Anyway again, any comments on the video?
Even if you don't like monorails in general you must admit that the elevated section is far more urban friendly than elevated Metro, LRT, or SkyTrain.

 

[gweed123]

The LV Monorail is not urban friendly..............it goes behind most attractions upagainst parking lots, is of no use to the locals as the fare which is $5 is not transferrable to the local transit system, and essentially just connects the casinos. That in itself is also a bad idea as most tourists going from venue to venue do so in small groups so it works out to be substantially more than a cab and tourists who don't cab it ussually walk "to take in the strip".
Anyway again, any comments on the video?
Even if you don't like monorails in general you must admit that the elevated section is far more urban friendly than elevated Metro, LRT, or SkyTrain.

I always thought that an in-median streetcar with dedicated lanes would work wonders for the strip, especially if it was free (or if all you had to do was show your room key). Get many more people up and down the strip quickly, with stops in front of all the major casinos and hotels.

They have a trolley-like bus that runs along International Drive in Orlando, but it's a cheap substitute because it runs in mixed traffic and on a very infrequent schedule.

 

[Mapleson]

Anyway again, any comments on the video?
Even if you don't like monorails in general you must admit that the elevated section is far more urban friendly than elevated Metro, LRT, or SkyTrain.

The video is a computer animation, and therefore of limited value. For example, the first visual it has of the line doesn't have correct shadowing of the piers (link as below). At 1:20, it shows a shadow for the runningway, but no shadow for the vehicles as they pass. At 2:07 or 2:50, you can see another example of shoddy CGI shadowing.
[video=youtube;MrNf-GNJwOM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MrNf-GNJwOM#t=60s[/video]

I'm not anti-monorail, I just don't hold with the idea they have some intrinsic superiority to other mass transit options. Most of the advantages you assign to monorails are actually a result of elements of the system design unrelated to the number of running tracks used.

 

[ssiguy2]

The good news from Brazil just keeps coming.
The Manaus Monorail project was thought to be dead but no more. Scomi and the city have just signed a contract for the largest city in the Amazon region.
The line is begin all assements and be constructed in 40 months as they are hoping it will be built by the 2014 World Cup. The line is 20km and will have 9 stations and will have capacity of 35,000 pphpd. Why doesn't someone remind the Brazilians that monorails are tonka-toys for zoos and amusement parks? They obviously don't understand that monorail can't be mass/rapid transit ........... "everybody" says so. Sao Paulo's is being equally uninformed as it's new system is being built for 48,000 pphpd.

Unfortunately, Bombardier did not get the contract, Scomi did.