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MLSE & Bon Jovi to Pursue NFL/Buffalo Bills

TJ O'Pootertoot said:
No offence, I just don't buy it. First, I'm a Bills fan who lives in Toronto, for the record.

You're right about where Buffalo is at though I hope and believe it's a city with the potential to pick itself back up. Obviously Toronto is a bigger, more prosperous city etc. But, first, there's politics involved and too many people with a stake in keeping the Bills in Buffalo. It would gut the city to lose them, financially and emotionally.

I don't have their financial statements in front of me but I don't buy that they can't survive there. The way the NFL is structured, the money is largely pooled and they get their chunk from the huge TV contracts etc. Yes, they're a small market and not LA or New York but I assume they are plenty profitable and people wouldn't be offering hundreds of millions otherwise. They may or may not do "better" here but they can hold out in Buffalo for longer than you'd think. Ralph Wilson wasn't holding on the team because he was charitable; he was making money.

This relates to what the two posts just above said too. The Bills "fan equity" is low because the city does not have many large corporations and they don't sell a lot of merch because they've been terrible for more than a decade. But low "fan equity" doesn't matter in the NFL the way it does in other sports because of the TV revenue.

Also, as small as the city may be, they still pull in 75K a game. I don't think a Grey Cup would do that here - MAYBE, once every five years - and can't think of many sporting events that would. A Winter Classic, OK - but I'm talking on a regular basis. Aside from the Leafs (which is largely a corporate crowd) Toronto fans are rather fickle. It's not like the Jays were pulling in 40K every night when they were in first place, for example (it's a bit of apples/oranges, I grant).

Finally, we've already had a mini-debate here about to what extent the Bills in Toronto series indicated the likely success of an NFL franchise here. I don't think is was a particularly fair barometer but it did at least show that there isn't a large hardcore Bills fanbase here; that Toronto may or may not be waiting and ready for an NFL team, but the Bills are not a "home" team here the same way they'd be regarded in, say, Rochester.

to conclude - a move to Toronto may or may not happen but it's not a MUST. For that matter, even if moving them was a MUST, the NFL may well rather have them in Los Angeles. Clearly there are a few more moves to play out here but I'm happy we'll know soon, and I hope Pergula gets them and keeps them there.
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Thank you for the clarifications.
 
Everyone: I have been reading here at UT about the sale of the Buffalo Bills - The Trump offer is interesting...

I feel that the Bills should remain in Buffalo/Erie County but if they are sold to a non-WNY entity there is a significant chance they could be moved...

I would like to see the Toronto yearly Bills game be against the Detroit Lions,Pittsburgh Steelers,New England Patriots or the Cleveland Browns (in that order) which are
all opposing teams somewhat close to WNY and southern Ontario...

There are the issues to be worked out concerning the Argonauts - I think that it would be tough having a arrangement like the MetLife Stadium one in which both the
NY Jets and Giants share the stadium facility - the Rogers Skydome would be a beginning one (?) until a new stadium could be built...

This is one topic I will definitely follow...LI MIKE
 
Doesn't the Bills have a contract with the stadium to host the team for the next decade? I'd imagine they'd want to move it to Toronto as soon as that contract expires.
 
The hard part is getting it, if they get it they have an excellent chance to move it in 2019-2020 (when the low cost relocation window opens up). This works out well since that's likely when we'll get a stadium built in this city anyway. Regardless, its looking increasingly like a tossup between Bonjovi's group and Pegula, whoever bids most will most likely get it.
 
There is a clause in the non-relocation agreement expressly forbidding the sale of the team to any owner/group that intends to move the team. Presumably that clause survives the entire term of the agreement (2023).
 
Yup. I doubt MLSE would have much of an interest in it if they didn't have plans for it.

If the team does move however, expect to see much less friendly americans when stateside, they won't be happy about us "Stealing their team".

It'll be a long wait regardless to get it here, but it at least gives us a decade to figure the whole stadium thing.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Yup. I doubt MLSE would have much of an interest in it if they didn't have plans for it.
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Firstly, MLSE is not involved here....one of the owners of MLSE is part of the group and a shareholder (and family of one of the founders) of one of the other owners of MLSE is part of the group.

Secondly, MLSE looked very hard at buying an English Premier League team about 5 years ago (or, even, a lower level English team that they could hope to get promoted to the PL) and I am nearly 100% sure they were not moving that to Toronto.

innsertnamehere said:
If the team does move however, expect to see much less friendly americans when stateside, they won't be happy about us "Stealing their team".

It'll be a long wait regardless to get it here, but it at least gives us a decade to figure the whole stadium thing.
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I would suspect that if the JBJ/Tannenbaum/Rogers group does win the bidding they will be required to give some assurances that they do not intend to move the team. In fact, since the trustee would be breaking their fiduciary duty if they sold to group that intended to move it then that assurance will probably be backed with penalties of some sort (likely substantial) if they show any intent to move it. "Figuring out the stadium" would be clear indication of "intent".
 
ehlow said:
So in 2023 it's possible? :)
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Not really clear.....the agreement deals with the sale not a move. In other words it makes it verboten to sell to someone who intends to move the team....so just the act of selling to a group that intends to move it during the term of the agreement would seem to be outside the agreement.
 
TOareaFan said:
I would suspect that if the JBJ/Tannenbaum/Rogers group does win the bidding they will be required to give some assurances that they do not intend to move the team. In fact, since the trustee would be breaking their fiduciary duty if they sold to group that intended to move it then that assurance will probably be backed with penalties of some sort (likely substantial) if they show any intent to move it. "Figuring out the stadium" would be clear indication of "intent".
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Surely these assurances can't last forever.

Why does the NFL care so much if they intend to move the team?
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Surely these assurances can't last forever.

Why does the NFL care so much if they intend to move the team?
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It is not the NFL that put that clause in....it was Erie County and the state of New York.....since they put a lot of public money into the refurb of "the Ralph". The way the clause is written it apparently can be paraphrased as "during the term of this agreement, it is not allowed to sell this team to someone who intends to move the team" the term of the agreement goes to 2023.

So, lets say, they sell to JBJ sometime before 2013....then they move the team....and it can be proven (somehow) that the vendor new (or should have known) that their intent was to move it...the clause has been breached.
 
TOareaFan said:
Not really clear.....the agreement deals with the sale not a move. In other words it makes it verboten to sell to someone who intends to move the team....so just the act of selling to a group that intends to move it during the term of the agreement would seem to be outside the agreement.
Click to expand...

TOareaFan said:
It is not the NFL that put that clause in....it was Erie County and the state of New York.....since they put a lot of public money into the refurb of "the Ralph". The way the clause is written it apparently can be paraphrased as "during the term of this agreement, it is not allowed to sell this team to someone who intends to move the team" the term of the agreement goes to 2023.

So, lets say, they sell to JBJ sometime before 2013....then they move the team....and it can be proven (somehow) that the vendor new (or should have known) that their intent was to move it...the clause has been breached.
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Strange.. what if they "don't intend to" now, but they change their mind after 2023? ;) I guess the question is can they ever do it.

I don't follow NFL much, but I was reading up on this and it's insane that LA has no team.
 
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