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MiWay: Service thread

doady

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Yeah, I doubt lack of wifi is what's holding back people from using transit in Mississauga. And it's not like the ridership of the system is much any worse in other mid-sized cities like Quebec and Winnipeg. They all have 40+ million riders annually. MiWay already went above and beyond those other systems with its new 24 hour service. If they want to spend extra money, that's the sort of thing they should be looking at. More 24 hour days, more 24 hour routes, more routes, higher frequencies. Fill in the gaps in service.

I took the 109 from Islington at around 7pm the other day and I was amazed how full the bus was leaving the station. Even after rush hour with an articulated bus there was no more room to stand. I transferred to 39 and that was also an artic and all the seats were filled even before the bus got to Hurontario. The 39 only has 25 minute frequency max, even during rush hour, and somehow they need to put articulated buses on the route.

The ridership is getting very high, maybe more than the system can handle. Maybe that should be their priority. Mississauga may have similar ridership to Quebec and Winnipeg but the bus fleet is much smaller. Mississauga only has 463 buses, while Winnipeg has 623, Quebec 613. Already there is a shortage of buses and you can see it with the articulated buses on 39 Britannia. They should be careful not to let things get out of control. I think in terms of comfort, instead of wifi, riders will appreciate more not having to stand at the bus stop as long, and at least actually being able to board on the bus, if not being able to sit down.
 

ShonTron

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Yeah, I doubt lack of wifi is what's holding back people from using transit in Mississauga. And it's not like the ridership of the system is much any worse in other mid-sized cities like Quebec and Winnipeg. They all have 40+ million riders annually. MiWay already went above and beyond those other systems with its new 24 hour service. If they want to spend extra money, that's the sort of thing they should be looking at. More 24 hour days, more 24 hour routes, more routes, higher frequencies. Fill in the gaps in service.

I took the 109 from Islington at around 7pm the other day and I was amazed how full the bus was leaving the station. Even after rush hour with an articulated bus there was no more room to stand. I transferred to 39 and that was also an artic and all the seats were filled even before the bus got to Hurontario. The 39 only has 25 minute frequency max, even during rush hour, and somehow they need to put articulated buses on the route.

The ridership is getting very high, maybe more than the system can handle. Maybe that should be their priority. Mississauga may have similar ridership to Quebec and Winnipeg but the bus fleet is much smaller. Mississauga only has 463 buses, while Winnipeg has 623, Quebec 613. Already there is a shortage of buses and you can see it with the articulated buses on 39 Britannia. They should be careful not to let things get out of control. I think in terms of comfort, instead of wifi, riders will appreciate more not having to stand at the bus stop as long, and at least actually being able to board on the bus, if not being able to sit down.
Yeah, that 25 minute rush hour headway is ridiculous. That should be 15 minutes minimum during peak service times, given how important that route is.
 

BhadPetrov

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I just realised now that Miway probably wants wifi on buses so the presto machines can always be updated and on the system and probably wants to know from the public if they should put in the bandwidth for customers to use. I'm just theorizing but is it far fetched?
 
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sillytilley

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October 28 service changes will include major changes to routes 38 and 68 as outlined in the MiWay Five plan as well as improved weekend service on several routes.

Route 37/38/68
Route 38
will be revised to no longer serve Britannia, Silken Laumann or Bancroft and will continue north/south along Creditview.

Route 68 will be extended to loop via Britannia, Bancroft and Silken Laumann replacing route 38 service in the area.

Route 37 will remain as is with no changes.

Route 38 frequency:
Weekday:
22-24 minutes peak (unchanged), 28-30 minutes midday (from 36 minutes), every 36 minutes evening (from 45 minutes)
Saturday: 22-24 minutes all day (unchanged)
Sunday: 36 minutes all day (from 40 minutes)

Route 68 frequency:
Weekday:
25 minutes peak, 30 minutes midday and evening. Route 68/91 will continue to interline.
Saturday: Approximately 50 minute service all day with frequency varying depending on trip times. No longer interlining with route 8.
NEW Sunday service with approximately 50 minute frequency. Span of service 855a to 512p, first trip from CCT at 855a, last trip 424p.

Weekend service changes:
8 Cawthra
Saturday frequency
increased to 45 minutes (from 60 minutes) due to no longer interlining with route 68.

13 Glen Erin
Saturday midday frequency
increased to 27 minutes (from 33 minutes)

39 Britannia
Saturday midday frequency
increased to 27 minutes (from 33 minutes)

101 Dundas Express:
Saturday midday frequency
increased to 15-16 minutes (from 20 minutes) between 11:00am-7:00pm from South Common and 12:13pm-8:00pm from Islington. Service outside these hours will remain at 20 minutes frequency.
NEW Sunday service every 20 minutes from 9:40am-7:16pm. First eastbound trip from South Common 9:40am, last westbound trip from Islington at 6:30pm.
With these improvements route 1 will use 40' buses on weekends.

109 Meadowvale Express:
Saturday midday frequency
increased to 15 minutes (from 23 minutes) between 9:30am-5:00pm from Meadowvale and 10:22am-6:08pm from Islington. Service outside these hours will remain at 23 minutes frequency.
Sunday: midday frequency increased to 17 minutes (from 23 minutes) between 9:15am-4:35pm from Meadowvale and 10:05am-5:29pm from Islington. Service outside these hours will remain at 23 minutes frequency.
 

Northern Light

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Mississauga really needs to get to a reasonable minimum standard of service on key grid routes.

Ultimately, that's got to be 15M service or better 6am-1am, 7 days per week.

We're a very long way from that. In the near-term, I'd settle for 30M within those hours, and 15M 6am-10pm on weekdays.

The idea that anyone but a non-choice rider would accept 50m service on weekends (daytime)..........
 

drum118

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Mississauga really needs to get to a reasonable minimum standard of service on key grid routes.

Ultimately, that's got to be 15M service or better 6am-1am, 7 days per week.

We're a very long way from that. In the near-term, I'd settle for 30M within those hours, and 15M 6am-10pm on weekdays.

The idea that anyone but a non-choice rider would accept 50m service on weekends (daytime)..........
I said to council and the city manager back in 2000 that the max headway should be 30 minutes 7 days a week. I can't count the number of time since then stating that 30 minute requirement to council in presentations and written reports.

I have call for 15 minute max headway on all grid routes since 2003 with some seeing under 10 minutes along with 7/24 service on various ones.. 30 minutes max after 12 am to 5 am for the 7/24.

Service on Sunday was to start between 6-7 am for grid routes with more routes seeing Sunday service that don't see service at all.

There are a few routes where hourly is needed as they carry no riders for 30 minutes in the first place. Route 14 is one of the poorest ridership routes at all times, except at school start and end time.

One big issues since 2000 is getting more buses for expansion and increasing the spare ratio to the point we still see the wrong bus on the wrong route as there isn't enough of the right bus for the right routes. 2020 buses are being defer again leaving the 2003 buses hanging on until 2021 well pass the 12/15 year replacement cycle council adopted over 5 years ago. 230 buses are due for replacement between 2018 and 2022 and no expansion allow for. Only express buses are being order for 2020 and a small number at that.

Once the LRT is running, those extra 19/103 route buses should be move to other routes to beef them up.

miWay is the 47th largest system in NA.
 

doady

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26 Burnhamthorpe takes 39 minutes to get from South Common to Islington at 1am, compared to 55 minutes during rush hour. It's hard to understand how lack of 15 minute bus service at 1am, a time when buses move unimpeded and there's no one driving on the roads, is turning Mississaugan's off of transit and encouraging them to drive.

68 is a minor/feeder, hub/spoke type of route, not a "key grid route". I think 45 minutes should be enough. They should interline it with another short route to give it 40 or 45 minute frequency. 68 will 25 minutes long, 91 is 20 minutes, interlining the two routes would allow for 30 or 45 minute frequency.

38 is being taken off Bancroft but it will still serve Argentia/Meadowpine, which will interfere with transfers to the 42/104. Their initial plan was to have a new route serve Argentia/Meadowpine/Bancroft and that route also would have served Matheson which has no full service, and I thought that was a better plan, both more useful and cost-effective. Terry Fox has a golf course on one side. There not much potential riders there.

See also 45/45A on Speakman and looping around Winston Park. I think those need to be served by a separate route also to keep 45 on Winston Churchill. There are also some connections that are missing altogether, like Burnhamthorpe to Winston Churchill, and Mavis to Dundas. These are the things that are holding back ridership, not the frequency.

The ridership grew by 50% since 2004. It's one of the largest and fastest growing systems in North America, so I don't see why act like its some small system. 40 million linked trips and 56 million unlinked trips annually is similar to Winnipeg Transit (48 million linked), RTC (44 million linked), AC Transit (53 million unlinked).

But as I said, Mississauga has much fewer buses than other systems with similar ridership. Winnipeg, RTC, AC Transit all have over 600 buses. Mississauga only has 463. The LRT will free up around 30 buses but still need more, a lot more.
 

drum118

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26 Burnhamthorpe takes 39 minutes to get from South Common to Islington at 1am, compared to 55 minutes during rush hour. It's hard to understand how lack of 15 minute bus service at 1am, a time when buses move unimpeded and there's no one driving on the roads, is turning Mississaugan's off of transit and encouraging them to drive.

68 is a minor/feeder, hub/spoke type of route, not a "key grid route". I think 45 minutes should be enough. They should interline it with another short route to give it 40 or 45 minute frequency. 68 will 25 minutes long, 91 is 20 minutes, interlining the two routes would allow for 30 or 45 minute frequency.

38 is being taken off Bancroft but it will still serve Argentia/Meadowpine, which will interfere with transfers to the 42/104. Their initial plan was to have a new route serve Argentia/Meadowpine/Bancroft and that route also would have served Matheson which has no full service, and I thought that was a better plan, both more useful and cost-effective. Terry Fox has a golf course on one side. There not much potential riders there.

See also 45/45A on Speakman and looping around Winston Park. I think those need to be served by a separate route also to keep 45 on Winston Churchill. There are also some connections that are missing altogether, like Burnhamthorpe to Winston Churchill, and Mavis to Dundas. These are the things that are holding back ridership, not the frequency.

The ridership grew by 50% since 2004. It's one of the largest and fastest growing systems in North America, so I don't see why act like its some small system. 40 million linked trips and 56 million unlinked trips annually is similar to Winnipeg Transit (48 million linked), RTC (44 million linked), AC Transit (53 million unlinked).

But as I said, Mississauga has much fewer buses than other systems with similar ridership. Winnipeg, RTC, AC Transit all have over 600 buses. Mississauga only has 463. The LRT will free up around 30 buses but still need more, a lot more.
First off, Mississauga has 11-13% model split and that's way too low. If council had follow my recommendations over last 10 -15 years, we should be at 30% plus by 2020 to support over 600 buses. 600 buses is far too many buses for today needs.

Boarding is a misleading figure as it doesn't say how many people are using the system in the first place.

If you compare Mississauga to US cities of the same size, we beat them on most front, especially quality of service.

38 should have been change over 10 years ago as well going to a grid system.

I strongly support max 30 minute service 7 day a week for 98% of routes, otherwise why use transit when you can drive faster.
 

drum118

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January 6, 2020 Fare Increase
Cash Fare-Adult Revised To encourage Presto migration Per Adult $3.75 $4.00 $0.25 6.7%
Cash Fare-Students - Youth (Age 13- 19) Revised To encourage Presto migration Per Student $3.75 $4.00 $0.25 6.7%
UPass 8-month fee (for eligible UTM students)1 Revised Per Student $229.00 $245.03 $16.03 7.0%
UPass replacement fee1 Revised Per Student $114.50 $122.52 $8.02 7.0%
UPass replacement fee1 Revised Per Student $114.50 $122.52 $8.02 7.0%
Summer UPass replacement fee1 Revised Per Student $69.25 $73.40 $4.16 6.0%
Cash Fare-Seniors (65 years of age or older) Revised To encourage Presto migration Per Senior $3.75 $4.00 $0.25 6.7%
Charter Rate (per hour, minimum charge 2 hours)-60 foot bus Revised Per Customer $235.00 $245.00 $10.00 4.3%
Charter Rate (per hour, minimum charge 2 hours)-30 or 40 foot bus Revised Per Customer $200.00 $205.00 $5.00 2.5%
 

doady

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First off, Mississauga has 11-13% model split and that's way too low. If council had follow my recommendations over last 10 -15 years, we should be at 30% plus by 2020 to support over 600 buses. 600 buses is far too many buses for today needs.
11-13% modal split is way too low? Compared to who? How many cities in North America have more than that? 30% is just crazy.

If you look at commutes to work, the only cities with 500k to 1M people that are better than Mississauga are Vancouver and Ottawa:

Main mode of commuting, public transit, 2016 (%)

Vancouver 29.7
Ottawa 20.6
Mississauga 18.1
Calgary 15.8
Winnipeg 14.9
Surrey 14.9
Edmonton 14.6
Quebec 14.5
Brampton 14.0
Hamilton 10.5

Boarding is a misleading figure as it doesn't say how many people are using the system in the first place.
I don't understand what is wrong with using boardings numbers to compare Mississauga to US systems like AC Transit. That's the way they count ridership down there. How else am I supposed to compare them?

I think to act like Mississauga has little transit service or ridership doesn't help at all to solve the problems of the system. If hardly anyone in Mississauga is using transit then we should cancel the LRT because there is obviously no need for it.

I strongly support max 30 minute service 7 day a week for 98% of routes, otherwise why use transit when you can drive faster.
Mississauga saw 50% ridership growth since 2004, Brampton 275%. Getting people to use transit is easy. The real challenge for places like Mississauga and Brampton getting people to walk or bike. The competition between cars and transit is just overstated. Mississauga has higher transit ridership because it was built for the car, not less because of it. People cannot walk or bike, so they take transit instead.
 

drum118

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No meat on the bone for the next 5 year service plan. Changes for 2020 may not happen for route 8 and 20 as plan.

Still recommend 20 either use TTC Mills loop or leave it as is, as all other routes fail. Strong backlash for any change to 20.

I call for max 7/24/365 15 minute max headway for all trunk lines and less at peak time. 109 needs 60' buses most the time if current headway remain as is.

Need a few more 24 hr routes to increase ridership.

New hybrid-electric buses

We’re introducing 10 next-generation hybrid-electric buses that are convertible to full battery power.

These hybrid-electric buses:
  • Have lower greenhouse gas emissions
  • Provide up to 25 per cent fuel savings
  • Include ‘plug and play’ components, helping to simplify the maintenance process
One of these new buses will be on display at the City’s Climate Change Action Plan outreach event at Celebration Square on Wednesday, Oct. 16 from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m.​
 

ShonTron

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Planned changes for 2020:

- Eliminating Routes 34 (Square One to CVH/EMTC), 24 Northwest and much of Route 7 Airport in favour of improved service on Route 35 Eglinton, as well as rerouting the shortened Route 7 from Renforth to Westwood via the old Route 24 routing.
- Moving to the Kipling Transit Terminal
- Changes in the Churchill Meadows area
- Cutting Route 20 Rathburn back to the Etobicoke Creek area

 

doady

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Both Rathburn Loop and Mill Rd Loop are interesting, maybe even better than serving Kipling or Islington. Rathburn Loop area has no transit service at all now so it's kind of isolated. There's nothing much around Mill Road Loop but to connect to 48 Rathburn could be useful. Apparently, Mill Road has no TTC service so it wouldn't be duplicating TTC either. Definitely they should not reroute to Tahoe station because that's just stupid.

Btw, I always thought the lack of TTC service in this area odd. No service on Mill Rd/Centennial Park, no service on Eglinton either.
 

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