MISSISSAUGA --The case of the poison pothole poem

[The Mississauga Muse]

Hey there, Doady.

Question. Who do you think is paying Pat Saito's legal bills? It was The Corporation upon receipt of the poem who shipped it to Police. A security threat.

It is funny that you make a big deal out of all this. It is almost as bad as the people making a big deal out of this poem. I think people in Mississauga have much more important things to worry about, like the City's racist policies, or the fact that Eve Adams is still in office...

Yes, absolutely the city has many important things to worry about. But the biggest one, Doady is how The Corporation treats people.

You would never get The Corporation to acknowledge racist policies --even in the sea of white faces that comprise the senior management and citizen reps.

I don't care what problem you might see Doady, if The Corporation does not wish to acknowledge it, you can't prove it. It is really that simple.

They love to kick out that 87% citizen satisfaction rate they got from Environics. Doady, I put in a Freedom of Information to see proof of that 87%.

"access denied".

For so much you (we) have to take their word for it. You try Freedom of Information? "Access denied".

Would've agreed with you about Eve Adams even a month ago. But saw her fight like a champion for her Ward 5 residents at the last Council meeting and I was impressed.

I like being proved-wrong-positive-surprises like that.

Signed,
The Mississauga Muse

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

Hi Hydrogen,

You wrote:

The trouble is the people who are making an issue out of the poem are whacking a guy over the head with the law. They have a right to protest his words, but proceeding this way is silly.

Towards the end of the trial (late afternoon) I couldn't take it anymore. Several things Mr. Batista said just flooded me with this protective sympathy for him.

This rage was building in me too --and I just lost it. Started crying and had to bust out of that room. I tried hard to remember the last time I cried in public. Can't.

You wrote that "They have a right to protest his words, but proceeding this way is silly."

"Mean", Hydrogen. Not "silly".

And tomorrow I get to watch it all again.


Signed,
The Mississauga Muse

 

[Urban Shocker]

Such a rare treat - to see an elderly suburbanite behaving like a teenaged tagger, and being brought to task for it.

 

[doady]

Recently made and post a couple of photos comparing Hazel McCallion to Hitler, and it offended some people (including you, Mississauga Muse) that called on the "authourities" to remove them. All I was trying to point out was how ridiculous and offensive such comparisons can be, and reactions just proved me right. The pictures WERE sick and disturbing.

But was it the message itself you guys had a problem with or THE WAY THE MESSAGE WAS PRESENTED?

It is the same as this poem: is it message that is the problem here or the way it is presented?

Just because I am dissatisfied with transit, should I draw and send Hazel a picture of herself getting run over by a Mississauga Transit articulated bus? How about one to Mayor David Miller showing him tied up and gagged in front of an incoming subway train?

I probably cannot or should not do this, so is that a suppression of my free speech? Is it also a blow to democracy? OR are there many other ways I can present that exact same message?

How so, Doady? I'd like to hear more.

I will agree with you on the topic of Eve Adams, she's a disgrace.

They recently passed a law or by-law or whatever that bans non-Canadian citizens from being city committees and advisory bodies. Even though this affects Caucasians as well, it may not be specifically aimed at excluding everyone else, but that fact is, the most recent immigrants are not white and they are ones most likely to be affect by this policy.

 

[adma]

Maybe it would have been less offensive if you referred to "Hilter"

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

Hey there, Doady,

Neat post! Lots of crunchy content!

You wrote:

Recently made and post a couple of photos comparing Hazel McCallion to Hitler, and it offended some people (including you, Mississauga Muse) that called on the "authourities" to remove them. All I was trying to point out was how ridiculous and offensive such comparisons can be, and reactions just proved me right. The pictures WERE sick and disturbing.

I'm of German descent and so sensitized to Nazi images. I worried about anyone Jewish seeing it. But it wasn't just the Hitler image.

Although it'd have been dicey to call... I might've accepted a clever cartoon of a Hitler minus the swastika --like a Springtime for Hitler kind of thing. I don't know.

I reacted more to the bodies in the pit. Everyone has a line --its their own line to cross or object to it being crossed. That was made very clear in today's ending arguments.

But was it the message itself you guys had a problem with or THE WAY THE MESSAGE WAS PRESENTED?

The message itself. I would've objected to text that compared McCallion to Hitler. I think that's because you save Hitler for the darkest of purest evil stuff. Yes, I know. Totally subjective.

The Fellowship of the Ring were forever reluctant to speak Sauron's name. And when they must, it's with revulsion and dread. That's how I believe we should regard Hitler.

But so what? That's just my opinion. And you see, Doady, that's why I called in the TO Forum "authorities". They'd know how to call it. If they'd have said it was all right, I'd have handled that. I'd complain, mind you.

But I also believe the TO Forum admins would let me crab about that.

To continue, you wrote:

It is the same as this poem: is it message that is the problem here or the way it is presented?

Neither. That's all irrelevent. The question is, and Ruby made this clear. Did the words of the poem convey the intent to cause harm/death to Pat Saito?

Was this a real death threat? It's a criminal offence to utter a death threat --as it should be.

Clayton Ruby kept zipping that question over the plate. Did Mr. Batista write that as a death threat?

You wrote:

Just because I am dissatisfied with transit, should I draw and send Hazel a picture of herself getting run over by a Mississauga Transit articulated bus? How about one to Mayor David Miller showing him tied up and gagged in front of an incoming subway train?

Why not? Why can't you? Those are political cartoons. If you feel comfortable sending them off to the Star or the Sun, then why not send it to Mayor McCallion or David Miller.

There are people who can't write. But the drawings you suggested can be understand by GTAers of any language.

I probably cannot or should not do this, so is that a suppression of my free speech? Is it also a blow to democracy? OR are there many other ways I can present that exact same message?

Of course there are other ways. You and I can both write. We affluent enough to afford access to the Internet. Perhaps you can draw, or take photos or video. Perhaps you are a musician and can write a satirical song.

I learned Semaphore to try and communicate with The Corporation after my letters were ignored.

But Antonio Batiste had only three years of schooling in his native Portugal between age 7 and 10. City staff can take one look at his letters and know the extent of his education (AKA importance, potential clout).

He emphasized he was "shy". If you've ever watched Council meetings you wo... never mind. I'll be happy to tell you one day.

I can tell you this. Writing letters wasn't going to get him anywhere. Saito herself admitted her office was "swamped".

And in Clayton Ruby's concluding remarks, he said Mr. Batista's poem was (and I'm quoting) "the product of frustration" "because her office was incapable of meeting the acceptable standards of response to municipal affairs."

Like. Ouch, eh?

Signed,
http://www.mississaugablogs.com/Mississauga_Musings/2007/05/_you_may_need_to_38.html

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

Urban Shocker,

Regarding Mr. Batista, you wrote:

Such a rare treat - to see an elderly suburbanite behaving like a teenaged tagger, and being brought to task for it.

Forgive me but I'm not sure if you are serious or this is firmly and very subtly tongue-in-cheek.

And you see that's the other thing about written language. Sometimes the message received isn't the one sent.

Signed
The (slow on the take) Mississauga Muse

 

[Observer Walt]

Doady, I do recall your photographs with Hazel's picture superimposed on scenes of Nazi death camps. I agree with Muse's argument that such images portray the "darkest" or the "worst of the worst" in terms of modern human history. Comparing Hazel McCallion to Nazis is out of line, in civilized discourse.

You've had a large number of good posts on this forum and made a number of good points. But that time, I think you stepped way over a line which is respected by most people. In response to your specific question, as to whether it was the message, or how it was presented, that was objectionable: for myself, it was both.

As for the bylaw restricting people serving on city committees to those who are Canadian citizens, I happen to disagree with that, and think that residency in the City for a reasonable period, say one or two years, should be the qualification. Having said that, I don't see the present bylaw as "racist".

I seem to remember that this question was originally raised by a person who had been resident for many years (about 30, I think) but had not become a citizen. He wanted to serve on some committee and was refused. I do have some sympathy for him, and I have no idea what his racial background is. I think he should have been considered for the position, if he was otherwise qualified. But I think his situation might be a valid concern for some people, and I don't see them as racist just because they prefer that people serving in such positions be citizens. Being a citizen, especially if you are originally from elsewhere, indicates a commitment to the community and to the values of our society. Having members of City committees being citizens as a prerequisite is not an unreasonable idea, just because you or I may disagree with it.

If I may say so Doady, as with pictures of Nazis, we should be careful about playing the race card. It cheapens an argument which might otherwise have merit.

 

[Observer Walt]

Shocker, I may also be "slow on the take", but didn't get your point. I think it's reasonable to "take him to task" by, say, having a police officer visit his home and caution him about material which could be interpreted as threatening. It's well over the line to haul him into court. I am hoping that your comment was tongue-in-cheek, which doesn't always come across on an impersonal screen.

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

No evidence senior intended to kill councillor: lawyer

Just thought I'd share this.

John Stewart, Mississauga News:

No evidence senior intended to kill councillor: lawyer

May 29, 2007 - The prosecution of a 75-year-old Mississauga man for allegedly uttering a death threat against a City councillor, “is a very significant one for the values underlying the right of freedom of expression, which is one of our most important traditions,” famed criminal lawyer Clayton Ruby told a Brampton court today.
In his closing argument this morning in the trial of Churchill Meadows resident Antonio Batista, the Toronto lawyer argued there is no evidence that his client actually intended to kill Ward 9 Councillor Pat Saito.

“It is poetry. It is satire. And it has a political context,” Ruby told Justice J.J. Keaney as the two-day trial concluded. The judge reserved judgment in the case until the last week of July.

“You have before you an utterance which is clearly a political expression,” said Ruby, who has a long history of defending clients who push the limits of free expression. “Do not be quick to draw criminality into political expression. Your job is to protect that kind of speech.”
Batista was charged in February 2006 with uttering death threats and intimidation after he postered his neighbourhood with a poem that expressed his frustration with Saito, who made a facetious remark in an article in The Mississauga News about potholes slowing down traffic.
Batista, who ran unsuccessfully for councillor against Saito last fall to protest his arrest, was charged after resident Neil Lawrence was “shocked” by a section of the work that suggested Saito would be buried in a pothole.

The pivotal section of the poem, as written by Batista, states: “We are going to dig a pothole about six feet and 3 feet wide and 5 feet deep to hide her body and God will take care of Her Soul, but we cannot forgive her for doing nothing. She can keep running at a good pace but We will make sure that She is in HEAVEN and out of the race. So please GOD take care of this SOUL for ever and EVER.”
Crown Attorney Jennifer Goulin said nobody is questioning Batista’s right to criticize Saito or to write a poem about her.

“But in this case, the threat went too far,” she said.
The threat may be implied, “but it is not too much of a leap to see that digging a pothole...is analagous to digging a grave and saying that she will have to go to heaven” is a threat of death.

The test of conviction is, “whether the words convey a threat of serious bodily harm to a reasonable person.”
Goulin argued that Lawrence, a parking officer with the City of Toronto, “reacted as a reasonable person would” when he became alarmed by the poem and warned Saito’s office about it. The issue was then referred to police and charges were laid.

The threat was published after consideration, noted the crown, not in the heat of the moment.

“The fact that there is a political context does not make that more acceptable.”

Goulin told court that “there is still a need to send a message that it is not okay” to make threats, even if the recipient is an elected official.

Ruby took exception to that argument, saying it implied that a conviction should be registered as a deterrent to others when it is not necessarily justified in this case.
“We don’t use the criminal law in this way,” he said.
On Monday, Saito testified that she was rattled by Batista’s words when her staff read the poem to her over the telephone.

“To me, it was extremely concerning and very frightening,” Saito said.

 

[afransen]

It's not fair to say that this charge is necessarily frivolous. He did indeed utter a death threat, though that's up to the court to decide. I'm not sure any of you realise the threat of bodily harm that many politicians face. It's happened more times than you think that MPs, for instance, are assaulted in their constituency offices (being strangled, etc.). They really shouldn't be nonchalant about death threats....

He's probably harmless, but that's often said about people who later kinda snap and do something extreme.

 

[Hydrogen]

He's probably harmless, but that's often said about people who later kinda snap and do something extreme.

Well maybe they should lock him up - just in case.

 

[afransen]

Well maybe they should lock him up - just in case.

That's for the courts to decide.

 

[Urban Shocker]

I doubt if this old fart had criminal intent, but you'd think he'd have learned in his 75 years that there are plenty of literal-minded people out there itching to take offence at something like this. The two sides deserve one-another and I see it as a spectator sport for the rest of us, hence my earlier comment about geriatric delinquents - though I doubt the recidivism rate will be all that high if he's convicted.

 

[Hydrogen]

“We are going to dig a pothole about six feet and 3 feet wide and 5 feet deep to hide her body and God will take care of Her Soul, but we cannot forgive her for doing nothing. She can keep running at a good pace but We will make sure that She is in HEAVEN and out of the race. So please GOD take care of this SOUL for ever and EVER.â€

The use of "we" indicates a conspiracy! Clearly, there are many others involved. This fact is fully indicated in the text. No doubt about it whatsoever! It's all there to be taken literally!

Time for a major investigation, some Peel police sleuthing, some late-night knocks on the door followed by some incisive rhyming interrogation.

By gummity, justice must seen to be done!