Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[11th]

The L in VIA's LRC locomotives and coaches stood for Light.

Often more about marketing than anything else.

Given the 90-metre trains, and narrow vehicles, the Eglinton line is intermediate capacity.

Interestingly though, it seems Montreal metro's rolling stock is narrower than the Flexity vehicles..
Must be the wheelwells that make the interior seems less spacious.

 

[ehlow]

Interestingly though, it seems Montreal metro's rolling stock is narrower than the Flexity vehicles..
Must be the wheelwells that make the interior seems less spacious.

Same with Chicago and Paris. Plenty of metros/subways have relatively narrow trains.

 

[nfitz]

Interestingly though, it seems Montreal metro's rolling stock is narrower than the Flexity vehicles.

It is, and if they had a maximum train length of 90 metres, I'd call them intermediate capacity as well. However Montreal typically runs 152 metre-long trains (compared to 138 metre long trains on Line 1 and 2 in Toronto).

 

[44 North]

That second map has the Downsview extension marked as intermediate capacity transit, rather than a subway. Why?

I'm not sure the full answer. But I believe it's because the City and Prov eventually came to the decision that subways are too bloody expensive. You'll notice that both the second map ('73?) and third map ('76) seem to have no planned subway lines/extensions. But what we are greeted with are intermediate/light RT proposals (with service identical to subways), as well as GO/RER.

Aside from the Prov pushing a proprietary mode, this era of planning was one of the most sensible and non-partisan IMO. Grade-separate light RT for short and medium haul trips, supplemented with high-frequency high-speed commuter rail is the only true way for a city/region like ours to achieve a true transportation network. Yes, subways are important. But if we want to bring service to low-density areas, and connect far-flung population centres - all-underground heavy rail solutions are more often than not the wrong solutions.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

LOL - funny enough their rolling stock is our old subway cars.

That's how I envision LRT - major purpose-built stations (not streetcar platforms in the median), high level boarding, etc.. That's acceptable, not this streetcar with hundreds of annoying little 'streetcar' stops running down Finch, Sheppard, etc.

Let's call a spade a spade, we are not getting LRT guys, we're getting an underground streetcar on Eglinton and another streetcar on Finch (with less stops, but same idea).

Huh? The Eglinton tunnel has stop spacing that is comparable to the subway network.

Now now, the underground LRT on Eglinton may as well be a lower-capacity subway.

From what I've read, Manila runs light rail vehicles fully grade separated with 4-car trains. At that point it's indistinguishable from what most call a subway or metro.



Sure, let's call it an underground streetcar. I love underground streetcars. I rode a Flexity low floor streetcar (similar to our new streetcars) through the underground tunnel in Brussels and it was great. SF & Boston have underground streetcars, but they'd be nicer if they were low-floor vehicles for level boarding.

Exactly, Eglinton is an underground LRT. Not a subway.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Exactly, Eglinton is an underground LRT. Not a subway.

Technically, Eglinton is a subway. A subway is an underground electric railway, and Eglinton is an underground electric railway.

Even the 501 is one, at Dufferin Street.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

In British English, a subway is a tunnel used by pedestrians. This is what "subway" is in reference to on that plaque.

 

[Towered]

What part of Etobicoke?

North and Central Etobicoke is set to receive Finch West and Eglinton West, alongside GO Rail improvements. Line 2 already reaches Etobicoke with the possibility of further expansion to Sherway Gardens. From my understanding, north-south buses in Etobicoke are already more frequent than their Scarborough equivalents. The Six Points crossing is currently being reworked as well.

I am still pining for Waterfront West LRT being built sometime too. A Queensway branch could also be on the cards in 20+ years from now once downtown development shifts to South Etobicoke.

edit: Plus you guys have much better highway access than Scarborough.

Etobicoke is getting some transit, but the serious gap is that no north-south transit lines are being planned or built. Islington, Kipling, and the 27/427 corridor are all perfect for LRT ROW's, yet none have been proposed.

 

[WislaHD]

Etobicoke is getting some transit, but the serious gap is that no north-south transit lines are being planned or built. Islington, Kipling, and the 27/427 corridor are all perfect for LRT ROW's, yet none have been proposed.

What are their current bus riderships? Can this demand be accommodated by bus improvements?

 

[crs1026]

What are their current bus riderships? Can this demand be accommodated by bus improvements?

The issue isn't statistical, it's more demographic. North Etobicoke is an economically and socially underprivileged area with poor transit links to educational and employment opportunities. Same for northwest North York. Folks living in this zone endure particularly long transit rides to get "anywhere".

I'm not sure that the answer is building north-south LRT routes, that may indeed turn out to be lightly used. Better connections to job areas around the airport, and into Brampton and Vaughan might hold more ridership potential. (I'm told that the bus ridership along the 407 into York U already exceeds the threshold that we are talking about to justify LRT lines in the city, yet no one is proposin a York U - Brampton LRT....yet). The Finch LRT will definitely improve things.

I have always wondered what the rationale for the proposed Jane LRT is. Jane narrows south of Lawrence, so not a good candidate for right of way separation. Without its own ROW it will be little faster than the Jane bus. It's almost like the planners (it's a Transity City product, IIRC) said " we have to put a north-south line out there someplace, lets do it on Jane so we can say we are doing something for Jane-Finch" but without think through the need that ought to be addressed. Jane to Weston and up Albion strikes me as a better fit, assuming Finch gets built all the way from the Airport to Yonge.

See? We start out debating Sheppard and end up solving Etobicoke's problems. That kind of proves the complaint

Returning to topic....
- Paul

 

[CapitalSeven]

The issue isn't statistical, it's more demographic. North Etobicoke is an economically and socially underprivileged area with poor transit links to educational and employment opportunities. Same for northwest North York. Folks living in this zone endure particularly long transit rides to get "anywhere".

I'm not sure that the answer is building north-south LRT routes, that may indeed turn out to be lightly used. Better connections to job areas around the airport, and into Brampton and Vaughan might hold more ridership potential. (I'm told that the bus ridership along the 407 into York U already exceeds the threshold that we are talking about to justify LRT lines in the city, yet no one is proposin a York U - Brampton LRT....yet). The Finch LRT will definitely improve things.

I have always wondered what the rationale for the proposed Jane LRT is. Jane narrows south of Lawrence, so not a good candidate for right of way separation. Without its own ROW it will be little faster than the Jane bus. It's almost like the planners (it's a Transity City product, IIRC) said " we have to put a north-south line out there someplace, lets do it on Jane so we can say we are doing something for Jane-Finch" but without think through the need that ought to be addressed. Jane to Weston and up Albion strikes me as a better fit, assuming Finch gets built all the way from the Airport to Yonge.

See? We start out debating Sheppard and end up solving Etobicoke's problems. That kind of proves the complaint

Returning to topic....
- Paul

The points about Jane being narrow are fair, but criticism of it as a corridor choice, not so much. Look at the ridership stats for the west part of Toronto and you'll see it needs attention. Ride it and you'll see very diverse clients using transit all through the day, many with mobility issues, strollers, etc. A lot of alternative proposals set aside those issues in favour of wider, more convenient avenues. Is that better planning?

 

[ehlow]

The issue isn't statistical, it's more demographic. North Etobicoke is an economically and socially underprivileged area with poor transit links to educational and employment opportunities. Same for northwest North York. Folks living in this zone endure particularly long transit rides to get "anywhere".

I'm not sure that the answer is building north-south LRT routes, that may indeed turn out to be lightly used. Better connections to job areas around the airport, and into Brampton and Vaughan might hold more ridership potential. (I'm told that the bus ridership along the 407 into York U already exceeds the threshold that we are talking about to justify LRT lines in the city, yet no one is proposin a York U - Brampton LRT....yet). The Finch LRT will definitely improve things.

I have always wondered what the rationale for the proposed Jane LRT is. Jane narrows south of Lawrence, so not a good candidate for right of way separation. Without its own ROW it will be little faster than the Jane bus. It's almost like the planners (it's a Transity City product, IIRC) said " we have to put a north-south line out there someplace, lets do it on Jane so we can say we are doing something for Jane-Finch" but without think through the need that ought to be addressed. Jane to Weston and up Albion strikes me as a better fit, assuming Finch gets built all the way from the Airport to Yonge.

See? We start out debating Sheppard and end up solving Etobicoke's problems. That kind of proves the complaint

Returning to topic....
- Paul

Shouldn't Finch W LRT and the Spadina subway extension help? You take a quick LRT or bus to the subway, then you can take the subway downtown. Same with GO RER on the Georgetown/West corridor.

 

[DaveFlavanoid]

Shouldn't Finch W LRT and the Spadina subway extension help? You take a quick LRT or bus to the subway, then you can take the subway downtown. Same with GO RER on the Georgetown/West corridor.

I could be wrong, but I thought on of the main selling points of the Finch LRT was that it would be used as much for local trips as it would be used to shuttle people to the Spadina Subway.

 

[Rainforest]

I could be wrong, but I thought on of the main selling points of the Finch LRT was that it would be used as much for local trips as it would be used to shuttle people to the Spadina Subway.

Obviously, riders can use that line for both types of trips. But those traveling longer distance will see greater benefit. Cutting 15 min off a 45-min trip is much more noticeable than cutting 5 min off a 15-min trip.

 

[Palma]

Shouldn't Finch W LRT and the Spadina subway extension help? You take a quick LRT or bus to the subway, then you can take the subway downtown. Same with GO RER on the Georgetown/West corridor.

Exactly. Of course it will help. And if it does not help then its the people living there who have the issues