Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[kEiThZ]

I am wondering why they don't interline the Sheppard subway and the LRT for one stop....consumers-don mills. They are doing that in Ottawa for the new LRT. They are building the LRT out to Tunney's Pasture but leaving the BRT in operation till Bayview. This way, westbound passengers don't have to transfer to go one stop on the LRT to a major employment node. And eastbound passengers on the BRT don't have to transfer to go one stop to a major mobility hub.. As it stands, eastbound passengers to consumers get screwed under the present plan if the transfer is at Don Mills. And if the transfer is at Consumers, westbound passengers getting off at Don Mills get screwed over with the extra transfer.

If I had to vote though, I'd prefer keeping the transfer at Don Mills.

 

[jks]

Well, you could use that argument for any two stations. Anyone between Yonge and Don Mills is screwed if they are going east. An people west of Younge are double-screwed if going east. Interlining for one segminet will only help some people. One mode of transit throughout all of Sheppard is the way to go.

 

[kEiThZ]

Well, you could use that argument for any two stations. Anyone between Yonge and Don Mills is screwed if they are going east. An people west of Younge are double-screwed if going east. Interlining for one segminet will only help some people. One mode of transit throughout all of Sheppard is the way to go.

I agree but since that doesn't look like its going to happen and we have two important destinations right beside each other, I think there's a case to be made for the interlining of one stop.

 

[andomano]

Somewhat on the topic of interlining, how about sharing the current Don Mills platform?
The track diagram could be something like this: (sorry for the crudeness!)



<-W/bound subway.........................Sheppard subway platform................................<-Westbound LRT
______________________________________________________________.........._________________
................................../......................................................................../
................................./...................|....Don Mills Station....|..................../
____________________/.......________________________________________/_____________________
E/bound Subway->..........................Sheppard East LRT platform...............................Eastbound LRT ->


*ignore the periods, they are just there for formatting issues


This may work better at a newly constructed station, Consumers for example, since there wouldn't be a need for a separate loading area for the Don Mills LRT also.

 

[Voltz]

^

That could work and I think it would be a good idea, there would have to a long enough tail track on the subway side to store a disabled train. I do recall that a similar design is or was under consideration for Don Mills.

Of course the down side would be that there is no dreaded kennedy style transfer for people to complain about.

 

[SunriseChampion]

The Kennedy transfer keeps coming up. Is it really that bad?

I mean, I'm all for seamless mass transit (I will forever curse this Sheppard LRT fiasco) but I don't really start twitching when approaching Kennedy Station. It's not like you have to walk 200 metres to get to the connecting platform.


I think they should extend the subway farther east so as to be able to have the LRT and subway platforms on the same level and as close to each other as possible in the transfer station. If this would be possible farther east under Sheppard; I'm no expert.

 

[kEiThZ]

The Kennedy transfer keeps coming up. Is it really that bad?

It is. What makes it worse though is that you have that transfer at the end of a SRT ride.

I sincerely hope the experience on Sheppard turns out different.

 

[Voltz]

I think they should extend the subway farther east so as to be able to have the LRT and subway platforms on the same level and as close to each other as possible in the transfer station. If this would be possible farther east under Sheppard; I'm no expert.

They wouldn't have to extend the subway to get a better transfer, the above posted transfer idea could easily be done at don mills and is the best possible interchange between the two lines.

Extending the subway to meet a LRT would probably have the LRT on the surface and the subway below ground, not that they could not have them both below ground.

 

[Second_in_pie]

From what I've read, it sounds like Don Mills will connect to 4 RTs, so if there was to be an underground transfer (presumably for all 3 LRTs,) the station would need a LOT more underground space.
I honestly think the best option for the two Sheppard lines is to integrate the LRT into the subway tunnels. While a lot of people will object to it, the Sheppard Subway could definitely function reasonably well with an LRT (assuming that my faith that the cars will be more rapid transit suited is true.) In my opinion, extending the subway to scarborough is not the way to solve the issue.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Ok, fair enough. I mean, I know it's not ideal, but what exactly makes the Kennedy transfer so horrid in your opinion?

Though, I'm not gonna lie, I avoid transfers like the plague. That's why I always take the train (GO) downtown from Scarborough and why I catch the 504 streetcar from Broadview Station to get to King Street West when I'm coming down the subway from along Danforth, for example.
++++

Seeing as it's nicely possible to have the transfer platforms on the same level, I reserve the right to be pissed off if they end up not being so at all.

And yes, I travel that corridor once in a while so my griping shall be valid.


I just don't like cutting corners when you're supposed to be doing something properly. Especially when you're building massive public projects like this. If things were done efficiently, there could be no fear of upsetting people with tax dollar boondoggles. Not to mention that if things were done efficiently and properly, they'd end up functioning efficiently and properly.

 

[prosperegal]

From what I've read, it sounds like Don Mills will connect to 4 RTs, so if there was to be an underground transfer (presumably for all 3 LRTs,) the station would need a LOT more underground space.
I honestly think the best option for the two Sheppard lines is to integrate the LRT into the subway tunnels. While a lot of people will object to it, the Sheppard Subway could definitely function reasonably well with an LRT (assuming that my faith that the cars will be more rapid transit suited is true.) In my opinion, extending the subway to scarborough is not the way to solve the issue.

Is it possible to integrate the subway and the LRT? And won't that cause temporary closure of the entire line?

 

[Second_in_pie]

Is it possible to integrate the subway and the LRT? And won't that cause temporary closure of the entire line?

It might require some tunnel reworking and even if not upwards of a month of track re-laying, but I think the lack of a transfer and money saved is worth it.
And I think Scarborough needs a subway more than York Region, but I think there are better routes out there than the one that Sheppard is taking.

 

[toraerach]

It might require some tunnel reworking and even if not upwards of a month of track re-laying, but I think the lack of a transfer and money saved is worth it.
And I think Scarborough needs a subway more than York Region, but I think there are better routes out there than the one that Sheppard is taking.

It would take a lot more than a month. A light rail vehicle's doors are not at the same height as a subway's and all of the platforms on the Sheppard line would need to be re-worked possibly including expensive and time-consuming adjustments to or replacements of elevators and escalators. In the end I just don't think it would be worth it. All that money should be going to other projects and service improvements. Ideally they would extend the subway to STC, but if that's not going to happen they might as well just make the transfer at Don Mills/Consumers as quick and simple as possible - not only for the Sheppard East LRT, but also the Don Mills LRT.

 

[DavidH]

It would take a lot more than a month. A light rail vehicle's doors are not at the same height as a subway's and all of the platforms on the Sheppard line would need to be re-worked possibly including expensive and time-consuming adjustments to or replacements of elevators and escalators. In the end I just don't think it would be worth it.

Not that I expect this to happen, but if it did - I'd wonder if raising the level of the trackbed at the stations wouldn't be the cheaper way to go. You wouldn't have to do the entire tunnel; just at the stations with an appropriate ramp on either side.

 

[kEiThZ]

I would hope that a LRT station would not cost a $100 million a piece. Either way, if the LRT looks like its going to happen I'd prefer to get rid of the transfer if it can be done cheaply. Heck, I'd still support getting rid of the transfer and bolstering the Sheppard bus service from Yonge to Don Mills.