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Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

ARG1 said:
Doug Ford suggested having Sheppard East subway loop with Line 2, however given the EA of where Sheppard McCowan is located, this is unlikely.
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Not just the EA. The two lines are built for trains of different lengths.
 
kEiThZ said:
Not just the EA. The two lines are built for trains of different lengths.
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I don't think the 2 lines are going to be interlined and any connection to the two will be perpendicular and not parallel. I know some will make the case for McCowan and Sheppard, however I made my case for STC and STC also in my opinion has better extension potential. If the line ends at McCowan and Sheppard where do you go from there? Malvern? That's fine but that's really it. On the other hand STC would bring the Sheppard line closer to Ellesmere which opens up potential of extending the Sheppard line to UTSC and even into Durham via Kingston road if that's what you fancy. I also think crossing the Rouge Valley along Kingston would be better since its narrower then at Sheppard and there is more in the immediate vicinity then compared to Sheppard where after Meadowvale there is a whole lot of nothing. Service to Malvern can be handled by the Eglinton East LRT assuming it even gets built and still connect to the Sheppard line at Morningside or UTSC (wherever the Sheppard Line station would be built).
 
kEiThZ said:
Not just the EA. The two lines are built for trains of different lengths.
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Not really. Line 4 has extendable platforms, and pretty sure in a release earlier this year by the TTC (the same one that announced the huge fleet expansion) they propsed finally extending the sheppard line to 6 car trains.
 
If you wanted to make the case for extending the Sheppard Line east past STC then it could look something like this. Obviously we should focus on getting the line to STC first but I believe STC and Ellesmere offer better expansion potential.
Ellemsere Alignment.jpg
 
JSF-1 said:
When looking at an elevated alignment for Sheppard east of Don Mills to me I can see the elevated structure being put down the middle of the road, and if the stop at the Scarborough Town Centre was to be underground then there is a large empty parcel of land on the south side of the 401 west of Brimley that you could put the portal. On the other hand I do wonder where the western portal by Don Mills would be since nothing stands out immediately save for a centre median portal. Heading west from Sheppard-Yonge to Sheppard West on that extension there doesn't seem to be a way to elevate the line so that extension would almost certainly have to be underground save for the crossing of Earl Bales park.
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If people don't mind taken away 2 lanes (6 to 4) just west of Victoria Park then a centre median portal should be doable.
 
Steve X said:
Have people not been to other cities where longer walks like this is a common thing?
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I think London has some long connections between lines, although some of it comes down to the fact that some lines were built by competing companies who didn't really want to work together and build less complex interchanges.
 
micheal_can said:
From what I am understanding, OL trains will be standard gauge trains. This is incompatible with TTC Gauge. If they are converted to LRVs, then they might end up with centenary power. This would mean there is no way to power the third rail trains. By keeping Sheppard as a subway with the existing technology, and by extending it, instead of using LRVs, you keep the section between Line 1 as a good option to transfer trains around as needed.



I hope you are right. I cannot understand why the conversion would be smarter than just extending it and making it useful. It is not like tunneling for an LRT line would be any easier.
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Changing the rail gauge is very easy. Catenary vs third rail may be more consequential. Given that OL trains will have a smaller footprint, it is possible that they will fit into the existing Sheppard tunnel and leave room for the catenary, but not sure.

The goal of conversion is making the extensions cheaper. Tunneling may not be easier, but the elevated options should be cheaper with more agile trains.
 
It kind of boils down to what we want Sheppard line to be. If we are content with extending it west to Downsview and east to maybe Agincourt (or not extend it east at all), then maybe leaving it with the current rolling stock is fine. We'd only be talking about the line growing a few kms, and saving money on those extensions is not worth the cost or disruption of retrofitting the rolling stock. Of course, this expansion is unlikely to be a priority on a BCR perspective over cheaper, more impactful projects. I would think that sticking with this option is more or less the same as saying we don't extend Sheppard.

The other option is to switch the line to rolling stock more suited to elevated alignments (better able to climb grades and make tighter turns) and extend Sheppard to be a true cross-town line connecting suburban centres, adding 20+ km additional length, and making it cost effective by minimizing the amount of tunnel used to surface the line.
 
Rainforest said:
Changing the rail gauge is very easy. Catenary vs third rail may be more consequential. Given that OL trains will have a smaller footprint, it is possible that they will fit into the existing Sheppard tunnel and leave room for the catenary, but not sure.

The goal of conversion is making the extensions cheaper. Tunneling may not be easier, but the elevated options should be cheaper with more agile trains.
Click to expand...

There is no reason you can't elevate the subway. There are plenty of sections exposed to the elements, so elevating it is not that much of a challenge. What I don't get is why you want to tack on the millions of dollars to convert it on top of an extension.

afransen said:
It kind of boils down to what we want Sheppard line to be. If we are content with extending it west to Downsview and east to maybe Agincourt (or not extend it east at all), then maybe leaving it with the current rolling stock is fine. We'd only be talking about the line growing a few kms, and saving money on those extensions is not worth the cost or disruption of retrofitting the rolling stock. Of course, this expansion is unlikely to be a priority on a BCR perspective over cheaper, more impactful projects. I would think that sticking with this option is more or less the same as saying we don't extend Sheppard.

The other option is to switch the line to rolling stock more suited to elevated alignments (better able to climb grades and make tighter turns) and extend Sheppard to be a true cross-town line connecting suburban centres, adding 20+ km additional length, and making it cost effective by minimizing the amount of tunnel used to surface the line.
Click to expand...

A proper subway line, whether tunneled or elevated, going to the Airport would be a great thing for this.
 
Personally, don't think it even needs to go to STC. That would increase cost than keeping it on Sheppard. And sort of worsens options for North Scarborough. Which is the entire point of the Sheppard line (the northern cross-town). I'd say keep it on Sheppard. Whatever it is, subway or LRT. And maybe long after we're all dead and gone, they'll have extended it to the zoo.
 
kEiThZ said:
Personally, don't think it even needs to go to STC. That would increase cost than keeping it on Sheppard. And sort of worsens options for North Scarborough. Which is the entire point of the Sheppard line (the northern cross-town). I'd say keep it on Sheppard. Whatever it is, subway or LRT. And maybe long after we're all dead and gone, they'll have extended it to the zoo.
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As a surface LRT past McCowan makes sense connecting to Eglinton East and a Malvern branch
 
kEiThZ said:
Personally, don't think it even needs to go to STC. That would increase cost than keeping it on Sheppard. And sort of worsens options for North Scarborough. Which is the entire point of the Sheppard line (the northern cross-town). I'd say keep it on Sheppard. Whatever it is, subway or LRT. And maybe long after we're all dead and gone, they'll have extended it to the zoo.
Click to expand...

Yes I would keep it on Sheppard as well.
 
kEiThZ said:
Personally, don't think it even needs to go to STC. That would increase cost than keeping it on Sheppard. And sort of worsens options for North Scarborough. Which is the entire point of the Sheppard line (the northern cross-town). I'd say keep it on Sheppard. Whatever it is, subway or LRT. And maybe long after we're all dead and gone, they'll have extended it to the zoo.
Click to expand...
Not sure the zoo is as reliable a traffic driver as UTSC. Could have a seasonal shuttle bus from a Meadowvale & Ellesmere station that brings people to the zoo. Sheppard east of Morningside has kind of limited potential. Malvern would be ~3 km of a rapid transit line. Should be a quick bus ride. Might be an improvement over taking a long LRT ride to subway. Single seat ride from NYCC to STC seems like a bigger priority for regional connectivity.
 
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