Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[nfitz]

Im curious to know if there will be any type of quota enforcement for the trains. Whos to stop the trains to be loaded beyond seated capacity?

Why would you want to stop anyone standing on the trains? It's a relatively short ride. Imagine the litigation issues if someone missed a flight because they couldn't stand on a train with plenty of space to stand!

I don't see that there'd be any change in fare if your sitting or standing.

 

[cplchanb]

Why would you want to stop anyone standing on the trains? It's a relatively short ride. Imagine the litigation issues if someone missed a flight because they couldn't stand on a train with plenty of space to stand!

I don't see that there'd be any change in fare if your sitting or standing.

I was never against it, it just seems like it would infringe upon their premium rider experience that they are trying to market

 

[rbt]

I was never against it, it just seems like it would infringe upon their premium rider experience that they are trying to market

If the service is so popular at $19 that they have a large number of passengers standing, then they can afford to 1) put on additional trains and 2) significantly increase the fare until it isn't quite so popular.

 

[CDL.TO]

If the service is so popular at $19 that they have a large number of passengers standing, then they can afford to 1) put on additional trains and 2) significantly increase the fare until it isn't quite so popular.

If standing occurs, it will only be for a couple of trips per day (and also likely only at certain times of the year).

Other than raising fares in general, there is a wide range of off-peak discount strategies they could pursue to try and spread the peaks.

 

[TOareaFan]

If standing occurs, it will only be for a couple of trips per day (and also likely only at certain times of the year).

Other than raising fares in general, there is a wide range of off-peak discount strategies they could pursue to try and spread the peaks.

In this product/case, I am not sure how off peak pricing will spread the peaks.....if I am flying to city A and my flight leaves at 9 and I want to be at the terminal at 8 I am gonna take that 7:30 train......even if the 8:30 train is half the price.

 

[ksun]

I was never against it, it just seems like it would infringe upon their premium rider experience that they are trying to market

I am sure before entering the train, they know if they would have a seat or not.

I think premium has more to do with the time saved. I'd rather stand for 25 minutes than sit in buses/subways for 65 minutes.
Plus, the passengers have been sitting all along, some more than 10 hours. I don't think 25 minutes of standing will bother them that much.

Also with 15 minutes frequency, I guess most WILL have a seat. I have taken the Heathrow express, the Leonardo express, the Narita express, and I always have a seat. Remember not everyone will choose this $19 service versus $3 public transit or cabs.

 

[muller877]

If the service is so popular at $19 that they have a large number of passengers standing, then they can afford to 1) put on additional trains and 2) significantly increase the fare until it isn't quite so popular.

or #3. Limit the number of discount users per train (i.e. workers at Pearson). Currently when a shift ends and you are trying to get to the discount parking lot there are times when it is very difficult to get on the shuttle. Seems like the workers at the airport do not defer to their customers. I've even been the first one there and workers have decided that they should get all the seats in the compartment.

I know their shift has ended but they are dressed in uniform and still represent the customer experience of the airport.

I'm worried that this pattern might continue with the UPE. For the discounted rate there should be a code of conduct for the discounted tickets. (i.e. they have to let all other customers on first, they are the ones that stand, etc)

 

[Evening]

or #3. Limit the number of discount users per train (i.e. workers at Pearson). Currently when a shift ends and you are trying to get to the discount parking lot there are times when it is very difficult to get on the shuttle. Seems like the workers at the airport do not defer to their customers. I've even been the first one there and workers have decided that they should get all the seats in the compartment.

I know their shift has ended but they are dressed in uniform and still represent the customer experience of the airport.

I'm worried that this pattern might continue with the UPE. For the discounted rate there should be a code of conduct for the discounted tickets. (i.e. they have to let all other customers on first, they are the ones that stand, etc)

I'm not sure if you are trolling but are you kidding me? They are not your serfs. You are not royalty for being a customer. Their shift is done and they will behave like any human being would and attempt to get a seat. The fact they've been working all day should make them MORE deserving of a seat not less.

 

[Evening]

That's the Scheidt & Bachmann SV|50 which I mentioned in this post.

It appears to have the cutout for the barcode reader, but it's hard to tell if there is one installed. It's also interesting that the buttons aren't labelled for anything.

The bigger ticket vending machines also appear to have a contactless card reader below the screen. It's not PRESTO labelled, but it's not the type for debit or credit cards.

Wait, PRESTO had the capability of doing barcode readers? Why didn't they integrate that with their bus transfers?

 

[nfitz]

It appears to have the cutout for the barcode reader, but it's hard to tell if there is one installed. It's also interesting that the buttons aren't labelled for anything.

I heard a bit about these. I believe it's there, and the bar-readers are for future applications - such as validating pre-paid fares sold online or in other cities/countries.

I had thought the buttons were intended to have similar functionality to those at GO stations, and were to be labelled before roll-out.

Wait, PRESTO had the capability of doing barcode readers? Why didn't they integrate that with their bus transfers?

Why would any systems still need paper transfers? I just tap and go. The question I suppose is when they designed the legacy Presto systems sometime last decade, was bar readers a viable option.

I'm not sure if you are trolling but are you kidding me? They are not your serfs. You are not royalty for being a customer. Their shift is done and they will behave like any human being would and attempt to get a seat. The fact they've been working all day should make them MORE deserving of a seat not less.

Exactly! Though presumably if all the seats are taken, and you have a disability that you need a seat, or have a small child, you could ask them to move, just like on the subway.

Though it's a pretty short ride ... normally on the subway I stand up as we head off to the next station to get off! What's the maximum travel time ... 3 minutes?

 

[Evening]

Why would any systems still need paper transfers? I just tap and go. The question I suppose is when they designed the legacy Presto systems sometime last decade, was bar readers a viable option.

But some people still use cash on buses and im sure having barcoded transfers would make validating those transfers more efficient than just having the bus driver looking at them. They would also be helpful in getting rid of the collectors at subway stations because people with paper transfers no longer need a person to look at their transfer to grant entry.

Unless the ultimate plan is to eliminate transfers with cash fares altogether which is an interesting idea but I can see some problems (e.g. when a person loses or damages their presto card -- they would be screwed if they had transfers in their commute)

 

[nfitz]

But some people still use cash on buses and im sure having barcoded transfers would make validating those transfers more efficient than just having the bus driver looking at them. They would also be helpful in getting rid of the collectors at subway stations because people with paper transfers no longer need a person to look at their transfer to grant entry.

Ah, I see. Montreal was using machine readable bus transfers in the 1970s ... probably the 1960s but that's before my time. Yes, optical scanning would be an option ... is it failsafe enough? Magnetic strips are more common in many agencies these days.

It will be interesting to see what the new Toronto transfer issues by buses will look like.

 

[Catenary]

Wait, PRESTO had the capability of doing barcode readers? Why didn't they integrate that with their bus transfers?

The newer PRESTO readers are available with Barcode readers, as they are off the shelf units not specific to PRESTO. These ones appear to have the barcode readers installed, possibly because they came that way from the supplier.

I heard a bit about these. I believe it's there, and the bar-readers are for future applications - such as validating pre-paid fares sold online or in other cities/countries.

I had thought the buttons were intended to have similar functionality to those at GO stations, and were to be labelled before roll-out.

It's odd that that functionality would be handled through PRESTO, and not the bigger ticket vending machines. UPExpress also has mobile ticketing I believe.

So the labels are just yet to be applied? That's interesting. The fixed readers in Ottawa are from the same manufacturer, but are a different type that doesn't have buttons.

Why would any systems still need paper transfers? I just tap and go. The question I suppose is when they designed the legacy Presto systems sometime last decade, was bar readers a viable option.

But some people still use cash on buses and im sure having barcoded transfers would make validating those transfers more efficient than just having the bus driver looking at them. They would also be helpful in getting rid of the collectors at subway stations because people with paper transfers no longer need a person to look at their transfer to grant entry.

Unless the ultimate plan is to eliminate transfers with cash fares altogether which is an interesting idea but I can see some problems (e.g. when a person loses or damages their presto card -- they would be screwed if they had transfers in their commute)

Ottawa has selected barcodes (possibly 2D) as the method that they will use to implement machine-readable transfers from bus to fare-gated LRT. The tender is going out this year for the equipment, which will have PRESTO integration.

 

[muller877]

I'm not sure if you are trolling but are you kidding me? They are not your serfs. You are not royalty for being a customer. Their shift is done and they will behave like any human being would and attempt to get a seat. The fact they've been working all day should make them MORE deserving of a seat not less.

Many jurisdictions permit codes of conduct outside of normal working hours. For example, if you drive a company truck you cannot speed (monitored by GPS). There are quite often rules on what can be done in a work uniform. If the employee is wearing the patch of the employer their conduct will impact the public's view of the employer.

Where there are restrictions on codes of conduct, most employers require employees NOT to wear uniforms outside of their place of work (including travelling to and from work). In this case, employees after their shift must change before going home.

If their shift is done and they do not receive any perks, by all means they should receive the same treatment. But they are not treated the same...they are getting discounted transit.

The UPE is advertised as a premium ride for people that are working/living downtown. The users can get some work done with free wifi and be relaxed and ready to work (versus in the back of a taxi on the Gardiner). And they are paying $19.

Employees who use this to commute only pay 1/2 of this (OK....53%). Either through their employer or through the UPE ticketing agreement there should be preference given to the people that pay more (similar to premium vs economy class). This will be critical when shift time is over and inevitably there is a cue for the train (and a lack of seats).

I see no problem with someone who pays more gets a better experience. Happens everywhere including in the airport and even on public transit in Toronto (express bus service).

(I worry both tourists and employees will disrupt the business class experience...but that may lead to a quiet car in the very short term).

 

[nfitz]

So does muller877 think that those who pay $19 by Presto should be the ones to stand, and those that paid $27 should sit?