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Markham's Legacy and Boxgrove Community

You can't put a price on Quality of Life. When you live in the suburbs you get the extra space, the "fresh air", and if the community is designed with parks and walking trails, you get the benefit of enjoying your surroundings. Communities like Legacy allow for this and the benefit of being close to golf course amenities (bonus if you are a golfer). Unless you enjoy having homeless people roaming the streets, tight spaces and traffic 24/7 than the burbs isn't for you.
 
"You should live in the burbs then, the only thing you'd be dodging is traffic across a 6 lane arterial road."

To be fair, that's still easier than dodging across Front or the 8 lane Queens Park.

"When you live in the suburbs you get the extra space, the "fresh air", and if the community is designed with parks and walking trails, you get the benefit of enjoying your surroundings."

You don't need to go out to the 905 for this...a good percentage of houses in Toronto have very large lots - larger than much of what's getting built in the 905 because the Toronto houses are from the era of 50 foot wide lots. But in Toronto you get an established neighbourhood that's closer to more stuff, and virtually every residence in Toronto is a couple of minutes walk away from parks. I think there's 18 golf courses in Toronto. One main difference is that you'll most likely be able to afford a larger house in the 905, but your kids will revolt when they're old enough to be out and about on their own unless you buy them a car.
 
scarberian:

To be fair, that's still easier than dodging across Front or the 8 lane Queens Park.
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It's not like you'd have to walk that far to get to a convenience store. Besides, those two aren't exactly representative of most roads in downtown...

AoD
 
scarberian:

And 6 lane roads aren't the standard in the suburbs.
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Like most retail outlets (including the convenience stores) in the burbs would be facing the lower end of the street-width hierachy? Not quite. They are often located on arterial roads (and in particular, the intersections) for a reason.

AoD
 
Yeah, intersections, which means no 'dodging' is required at all. Chances are you won't even have to cross an arterial to get to a convenience store...you'll probably have to walk farther than you would downtown, though. The good thing is you won't get run over by cyclists and taxis.
 
"You don't need to go out to the 905 for this...a good percentage of houses in Toronto have very large lots - larger than much of what's getting built in the 905 because the Toronto houses are from the era of 50 foot wide lots. But in Toronto you get an established neighbourhood that's closer to more stuff, and virtually every residence in Toronto is a couple of minutes walk away from parks. I think there's 18 golf courses in Toronto. One main difference is that you'll most likely be able to afford a larger house in the 905, but your kids will revolt when they're old enough to be out and about on their own unless you buy them a car. "

You get the larger lots in Toronto, however the houses built need some sort of renovation. So you're basically shedding a whole lot of cash for the premium lot and in addition paying more for the renovation or repair to the house structure and interior. Is it worth paying high value for a half decent house that needs additional renovation?? If you have the money..go for it!

You can't compare golf courses found in the Toronto area to those in the GTA. I live in North York and I am miles away from a friggin driving range.

"your kids will revolt when they're old enough to be out and about on their own unless you buy them a car. "

Your kids when they grow up will want a car whether they live up north or in the downtrown core. Its a just stage in life. People tend to thiink its better raising kids in the city than in the burbs. If I had kids, they won't have time to "be out and about"....they will be busy with sports acitvites like hockey, baseball, or maybe golf ;)
 
"You get the larger lots in Toronto, however the houses built need some sort of renovation. So you're basically shedding a whole lot of cash for the premium lot and in addition paying more for the renovation or repair to the house structure and interior. Is it worth paying high value for a half decent house that needs additional renovation?? If you have the money..go for it!"

Houses in the 905 also have universally 'high value' because they tend to be so large. You can't even buy a home in Markham, Vaughan, or Richmond Hill for less than $275,000! If you have the money, go for it. And that renovation argument is void because you can find plenty of houses on large lots that are not falling apart - maybe something built in the 70s needs a new roof and carpets but a 10 year old 905 house might need the same. Lots of the houses in Markham are crappily built anyway.

"You can't compare golf courses found in the Toronto area to those in the GTA. I live in North York and I am miles away from a friggin driving range."

So you happen to not live near one of Toronto's 18 golf courses...then stop complaining and move to Markham.

"Your kids when they grow up will want a car whether they live up north or in the downtrown core. Its a just stage in life. People tend to thiink its better raising kids in the city than in the burbs. If I had kids, they won't have time to "be out and about"....they will be busy with sports acitvites like hockey, baseball, or maybe golf "

The difference is that they will need a car in the 905, especially if you drag them out to 9th Line. I don't think it's any better to raise kids in the city...actually, relatively few people think it is. You mention sports - they will most definitely need a car (or constant rides) if they're involved with them.
 
Unless you enjoy having homeless people roaming the streets, tight spaces and traffic 24/7 than the burbs isn't for you.
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There are a few things wrong with that statement. Having lived both downtown and in the suburbs, I can confirm without a doubt that traffic downtown pales in comparison to suburban streets like Highway 7, 401, Keele, Bayview, and probably many in Peel as well. The CBD will have very short periods of extreme congestion, however traffic always flows the rest of the day. In the suburbs, there are 3 hours per rush hour of non stop slow moving traffic.

As for the homeless people, the number you see on the street is directly proportional to the number of suburbanites present. Downtown where suburbanites work, there are hundreds of homeless people because only they are foolish enough to give them cash and let the problem fester. In actual inner city neighbourhoods which suburbanites never see, there are no homeless people!

Like homeless people, the tight spaces argument is also a myth. If you lived in Richmond Hill, would you actually take advantage of the 150 foot wide right of way most arterials have? Would you have a picnic at Jane and Steeles just because there's enough room? Would you play a game of soccer in the vast parking lot of Yorkdale? Most of the ample space in the suburbs is useless and wasted. Inner city neighbourhoods aren't "tight", the difference is that every piece of land is being used rather than wasted. This actually disperses crowds, so I rarely feel trapped in my inner city neighbourhood. Fairview Mall or Square One are infinitely more crowded than a local shopping strip in the inner city.
 
scarberian:

Yeah, intersections, which means no 'dodging' is required at all. Chances are you won't even have to cross an arterial to get to a convenience store...you'll probably have to walk farther than you would downtown, though. The good thing is you won't get run over by cyclists and taxis.
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Huh? I live out in the burbs and the I have to cross an arterial road to get to the closest convenience store, and it isn't an isolated circumstance anywhere.

As to the no dodging comment - try going across within 40 seconds with cars doing right turns same time.

AoD
 
Let me ask you something. Are you married? Do you have kids? I bet most, if not, all of you who have bashed the suburban lifestyle are most likely still in school, living the single bachelor/ette life. Why would you want to live in the suburbs???!!

But if you ask parents, they would tell you that location is not priority in most circumstances. You raise a baby, your priorites shift gears. Living in the prime areas doesn't become attractive anymore.

You have to look at it in a real estate persepective as well. Is it really worth overpaying for a house in central Toronto? Unless your a CEO, you won't be able to afford anything decent. Unless you think its okay living in a crapbox and making an attempt to renovate it yourself.

There was some guy hoping to buy a house for $275K. Good luck buddy. You can't even buy a 2 bedroom condo in North York for that amount.
 
Baghai makes a great point. For many young families, what happens outside of the walls of their house is nearly irrelevant. There is no time to run down to the market for fresh meat; a once-a-week drive to Price Choppers is the fastest option. And dad's got to get home after work, no time to stop for a drink or browse the antique shop as he walks from the streetcar stop.

A backyard is a great way to let the kids out while you wash dishes.

I have no kids yet, and I'm planning (dreaming) to have a downtown condo at least until my first kid is 3-4. After that, though, I want a house with a yard. Right now I still feel that I want to be somewhere in the city, say Scarborough, but when the time comes and I look at prices, I might decide that proximity to the places I never use anyways is overrated.
 
I'm not arguing that the suburbs are bad, I just get annoyed when people say unfactual things about where I live, which right now is downtown.
 
Baghai makes a great point. For many young families, what happens outside of the walls of their house is nearly irrelevant. There is no time to run down to the market for fresh meat; a once-a-week drive to Price Choppers is the fastest option. And dad's got to get home after work, no time to stop for a drink or browse the antique shop as he walks from the streetcar stop.
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Except that the key is that if you live in a well-planned neighbourhood (which happen to mostly exist in Toronto) you can work & shop close to your home. It's not the ability to stop for a drink or go antique shopping that you gain, it's the ability to buy your food or do EVERYDAY stuff on the way home, on your feet. Living in a pedestrian-friendly neighbourhood gives you more time to spend with family, and less time sitting in traffic!

You don't need to be downtown to live somewhere with vibrancy and a good sense of place, you just need to live somewhere the isn't built around the car.
 
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