E
EnviroTO
Guest
Please put a LOL or rolleys after comments like that. You are kidding right? What next... Casino Rama subway?
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Please put a LOL or rolleys after comments like that. You are kidding right? What next... Casino Rama subway?
S
scarberiankhatru
Guest
"What next... Casino Rama subway?"
No, a Bayview line from just north of Castle Frank station (won't connect to the B/D line) to Vandorf Sideroad, followed by an extension of the Bloor line to Grimsby, or possibly Thorold.
No, a Bayview line from just north of Castle Frank station (won't connect to the B/D line) to Vandorf Sideroad, followed by an extension of the Bloor line to Grimsby, or possibly Thorold.
B
Brighter Hell
Guest
whoever proposes a subway to peterborough gets my vote!
it would be an express route and it would go through scarborough so i know it would get councillor binetti's support
it would be an express route and it would go through scarborough so i know it would get councillor binetti's support
B
BrianHawkins1
Guest
ganjavih & scarberiankhatru:
Thanks for the suggestions - looking forward to trying 'em out.
Thanks for the suggestions - looking forward to trying 'em out.
R
roch5220
Guest
Mr Li seems to be eating to much MSG from his wife's restaurant.
Unless I see a real proposal, no off the cuff quote, especially during an election year, I give this no creditability.
Unless I see a real proposal, no off the cuff quote, especially during an election year, I give this no creditability.
G
green22
Guest
"Hey if a Tory is for new subways then something good is happening. Can only be a good thing even though the idea of going east on 7 is foolish."
It is actually conservative drivers who are the biggest backers of building subway lines, such as the the CAA, John Tory, Sorbara, Thompson, LiPreti, Lastman etc. The same ones that vote against funding for local transit maintenance and service improvements for the TTC have no problem with spending billions of dollars funding lines in areas that do not warrant the expenditure, and which will suffer huge ongoing operating losses.
These same people also believe that the TTC should be more efficient like a business as they saddle it with increased operating costs. They do not expect the competing road system to operate like a business (McGuinty's attitude towards 407 increases or transit fare increases). They are happy to get buses off the road, spend money on 'reducing congestion' and city building development projects. They are not interested in, or hostile to transit priority measures, money for service frequency improvements and regulations to promote smart growth.
If you build billions of dollars of subways (especially in politically determined areas) and cut back on bus and streetcar service, you are likely to lower overall ridership. The CAA and conservative media can then claim that spending money on transit doesn't work as they photograph the empty subway cars and 7th line station.
It is actually conservative drivers who are the biggest backers of building subway lines, such as the the CAA, John Tory, Sorbara, Thompson, LiPreti, Lastman etc. The same ones that vote against funding for local transit maintenance and service improvements for the TTC have no problem with spending billions of dollars funding lines in areas that do not warrant the expenditure, and which will suffer huge ongoing operating losses.
These same people also believe that the TTC should be more efficient like a business as they saddle it with increased operating costs. They do not expect the competing road system to operate like a business (McGuinty's attitude towards 407 increases or transit fare increases). They are happy to get buses off the road, spend money on 'reducing congestion' and city building development projects. They are not interested in, or hostile to transit priority measures, money for service frequency improvements and regulations to promote smart growth.
If you build billions of dollars of subways (especially in politically determined areas) and cut back on bus and streetcar service, you are likely to lower overall ridership. The CAA and conservative media can then claim that spending money on transit doesn't work as they photograph the empty subway cars and 7th line station.
S
samsonyuen
Guest
Extending to 9th Line? What? What restaurant does his wife own?
M
M II A II R II K
Guest
They could extend it to Newmarket, and the University line to Canada's Wonderland.
E
EnviroTO
Guest
Next stop Canada's Wonderland, this is the end of the line. Please exit from the left side of the train. This stop for Canada's Wonderland and the Conservative Platform.
S
scarberiankhatru
Guest
^ Why not run the subway directly onto the Minebuster tracks?
If the Tories win maybe they'll extend Yonge up to Magna HQ, although that terminus would be a bit close to the terminus of my proposed Bayview line...I guess they'll be interlined?
If the Tories win maybe they'll extend Yonge up to Magna HQ, although that terminus would be a bit close to the terminus of my proposed Bayview line...I guess they'll be interlined?
V
vincebjs
Guest
Lengthening subway lines and building extra ones would work if Toronto was dense and urban throughout the city and metro. area. I'm sure that similar-sized metro. areas in Europe like Milan, Madrid, and St. Petersburg could support lines as far out as Hwy 7 and 9th line, but the thing is, unlike Europe, Toronto is very suburban outside the downtown core with the exception of numerous scattered highrise nodes.
D
doady
Guest
How come whenever I see you post here or on SSP you are always bashing Toronto? The entire old city of Toronto and York can be considered dense and urban, not just the downtown core, so please shut up with the Toronto-bashing.
The population density of the Greater Toronto Area is actually similar to that of European cities and far higher than that of other North American and Australian cities. And don't go grouping Russian cities with the rest of Europe because they are not even remotely similar.
Approx population density of selected metros 1996
Houston 6 persons per hectare
Phoenix 6
Denver 10
Perth 10
Boston 10
Detroit 11
Brisbane 12
Adelaide 12
Washington 12
Chicago 13
San Francisco 13
New York 16
Los Angeles 17
Melbourne 17
Sydney 18
Copenhagen 27
Toronto 39
Hamburg 40
Paris 47
Stockholm 48
Frankfurt 52
London 56
Munich 58
West Berlin 62
Brussels 65
Vienna 71
Singapore 80
Tokyo 100
Moscow 135
Hong Kong 300
Source: UNCHS (eds) (1996) An Urbanising World. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
S
scarberiankhatru
Guest
"Toronto is very suburban outside the downtown core with the exception of numerous scattered highrise nodes."
Sounds like the perfect recipe for a subway line to me. Density is kind of irrelevant when you have a superb bus network feeding stations.
Sounds like the perfect recipe for a subway line to me. Density is kind of irrelevant when you have a superb bus network feeding stations.
C
Chuck100
Guest
An excellent bus network is great for radial lines. However to have a subway system that traverses the city as well as London's or New York's, decent density has to be scattered throughout the entire city. Compared to Toronto, New York has at least twice the length of track per resident, and yet its load factors are the same as ours.
G
green22
Guest
The population density of the Greater Toronto Area is actually similar to that of European cities and far higher than that of other North American and Australian cities. And don't go grouping Russian cities with the rest of Europe because they are not even remotely similar.
Approx population density of selected metros 1996
Houston 6 persons per hectare
Phoenix 6
Denver 10
Perth 10
Boston 10
Detroit 11
Brisbane 12
Adelaide 12
Washington 12
Chicago 13
San Francisco 13
New York 16
Los Angeles 17
Melbourne 17
Sydney 18
Copenhagen 27
Toronto 39
Of the low density metropolitan areas that have subways serving their suburbs, Washington, San Fransisco and Atlanta the subsidies are very high. As long as Toronto is the least susidized NA major transit system, highly subsidized suburban lines would be a disaster.
The densities vary considerably around the huge metro area of Toronto. The Yonge line is successful because it follows areas of mixed uses and high densities along most of the route. If you want to have buses provide most of the service to serve the subways you better be able to increase bus service. You might not be able to do both.
Ed Drass in transit- Metro
Published January 24, 2006
TTC growth plan questioned
Despite various transit promises during the recent election, the TTC faces an immediate shortfall in this year’s day-to-day operating budget. Tomorrow, the transit commission is to decide how it will find the money needed to keep the system running.
Will a fare hike be called for? Chief general manager Rick Ducharme tells In Transit that TTC officials have whittled down the operating budget gap from $66 million to $17.5 million. The system ended up with more money than expected last year, and patronage is expected to continue rising.
He says more vehicles must be added to the streets just to counteract traffic congestion and the reduced capacity of low-floor buses. Provided the TTC board approves this and other costs, it still has to fund the remaining shortfall.
Says Ducharme, “If we had to look at a fare increase in March,†then there are two scenarios. One is raising all fares, including the Metropass, which now costs $98.75.
“If we’re holding the Metropass at today’s price ... then the numbers would show maybe a 20-cent fare increase†for tokens and tickets, he adds.
Will riders get more service to accompany these possible higher prices?
Last fall, the TTC began a long-awaited effort to increase the frequency of vehicles on certain lines. The improvements were not added during rush hour because there are not enough new buses. Instead, some service was boosted just outside peak periods, on routes where demand is strong much of the day.
“The real Ridership Growth Strategy is 100 buses for the peak, but physically I can’t get them until 2007,†Ducharme says.
After widespread cuts to bus and streetcar service in the 1990s, the TTC has hardly increased the passenger capacity of its surface fleet. Instead, officials have been treading water, focusing on funding repairs to the subway and replacements for 25-year old buses.
How does the commission plan to grow? Long-time transit critic Steve Munro intends to ask the TTC board at its meeting tomorrow. Munro is worried the strategy to bring more buses and streetcars to riders across the city has been “hijacked by the subway advocates.†He writes, “We continue to encourage fantasies about a subway network that will not be built for at least two decades while the basic system is starved for funding, vehicles and service.â€
Munro warns that the city needs to examine “what a real ridership growth strategy looks like. (Mayor) David Miller has been resting on his laurels — those 100 new buses — far too long. Where are the next hundred and the hundred after that — which, by the way, only gets us back to 1990 fleet levels.â€
To serve the steadily growing city beyond the amount of transit service it had 16 years ago “takes even more vehicles,†Munro adds. He says that instead of treading water and shaving budgets, the TTC must state clearly how it will grow and how much that growth will cost.
Approx population density of selected metros 1996
Houston 6 persons per hectare
Phoenix 6
Denver 10
Perth 10
Boston 10
Detroit 11
Brisbane 12
Adelaide 12
Washington 12
Chicago 13
San Francisco 13
New York 16
Los Angeles 17
Melbourne 17
Sydney 18
Copenhagen 27
Toronto 39
Of the low density metropolitan areas that have subways serving their suburbs, Washington, San Fransisco and Atlanta the subsidies are very high. As long as Toronto is the least susidized NA major transit system, highly subsidized suburban lines would be a disaster.
The densities vary considerably around the huge metro area of Toronto. The Yonge line is successful because it follows areas of mixed uses and high densities along most of the route. If you want to have buses provide most of the service to serve the subways you better be able to increase bus service. You might not be able to do both.
Ed Drass in transit- Metro
Published January 24, 2006
TTC growth plan questioned
Despite various transit promises during the recent election, the TTC faces an immediate shortfall in this year’s day-to-day operating budget. Tomorrow, the transit commission is to decide how it will find the money needed to keep the system running.
Will a fare hike be called for? Chief general manager Rick Ducharme tells In Transit that TTC officials have whittled down the operating budget gap from $66 million to $17.5 million. The system ended up with more money than expected last year, and patronage is expected to continue rising.
He says more vehicles must be added to the streets just to counteract traffic congestion and the reduced capacity of low-floor buses. Provided the TTC board approves this and other costs, it still has to fund the remaining shortfall.
Says Ducharme, “If we had to look at a fare increase in March,†then there are two scenarios. One is raising all fares, including the Metropass, which now costs $98.75.
“If we’re holding the Metropass at today’s price ... then the numbers would show maybe a 20-cent fare increase†for tokens and tickets, he adds.
Will riders get more service to accompany these possible higher prices?
Last fall, the TTC began a long-awaited effort to increase the frequency of vehicles on certain lines. The improvements were not added during rush hour because there are not enough new buses. Instead, some service was boosted just outside peak periods, on routes where demand is strong much of the day.
“The real Ridership Growth Strategy is 100 buses for the peak, but physically I can’t get them until 2007,†Ducharme says.
After widespread cuts to bus and streetcar service in the 1990s, the TTC has hardly increased the passenger capacity of its surface fleet. Instead, officials have been treading water, focusing on funding repairs to the subway and replacements for 25-year old buses.
How does the commission plan to grow? Long-time transit critic Steve Munro intends to ask the TTC board at its meeting tomorrow. Munro is worried the strategy to bring more buses and streetcars to riders across the city has been “hijacked by the subway advocates.†He writes, “We continue to encourage fantasies about a subway network that will not be built for at least two decades while the basic system is starved for funding, vehicles and service.â€
Munro warns that the city needs to examine “what a real ridership growth strategy looks like. (Mayor) David Miller has been resting on his laurels — those 100 new buses — far too long. Where are the next hundred and the hundred after that — which, by the way, only gets us back to 1990 fleet levels.â€
To serve the steadily growing city beyond the amount of transit service it had 16 years ago “takes even more vehicles,†Munro adds. He says that instead of treading water and shaving budgets, the TTC must state clearly how it will grow and how much that growth will cost.