Maps of Toronto's old rail lines?

[urbanperson]

It is kind of amazing how the Toronto port lands and Ashbridge's Bay lost rail service over something this stupid. Maybe next time they should think before they start sticking shovels in the ground.

 

[DSC]

It is kind of amazing how the Toronto port lands and Ashbridge's Bay lost rail service over something this stupid. Maybe next time they should think before they start sticking shovels in the ground.

Yes, the CreateTO people clearly though you could just move a rail line onto a road but then did some more investigation and found there were 'things' under the road. Who knew? Frankly, moving the rails into the ROW on Leslie seems pretty odd to start with but... However, it does seem that Toronto Water may no longer need rail deliveries and the Cruise Ship Terminal line along Unwin has not seen a train for 10+ years so it really may be time to give up. Pity they spent $$$ fixing an unused line but .....
ears

 

[urbanperson]

The dumb part is that there could have been a market for freight, but the reality is that rail didn't die here, it was killed. It's sad because now the closest rail freight service to Toronto is now Etobicoke. There was one other user around there, I believe it was Canroof. Any idea what happened to them? They really aren't affected by this so I can't see why they wouldn't be taking cars.

 

[DSC]

The dumb part is that there could have been a market for freight, but the reality is that rail didn't die here, it was killed. It's sad because now the closest rail freight service to Toronto is now Etobicoke. There was one other user around there, I believe it was Canroof. Any idea what happened to them? They really aren't affected by this so I can't see why they wouldn't be taking cars.

CanRoof are still there on Lake Shore and are still connected to rail as they are before where it was cut at Leslie and Commissioners. However, as far as one can see it has been years since they actually got a rail delivery. In fact, there is a barrier on the rail line where the bike track crosses it just east if the Aecon tents but I think they COULD get a rail delivery if they insisted.

 

[lenaitch]

Freight rail lines and the industries that use them apparently have no place in the urbanization/gentrification of the waterfront.

 

[DSC]

Freight rail lines and the industries that use them apparently have no place in the urbanization/gentrification of the waterfront.

The City is keen to retain the Redpath sugar refinery on Queens Quay but they now use trucks not trains to remove 'product' and only (?) use ships to deliver the raw sugar. There is clearly a difference between rail lines and factories.

 

[Northern Light]

Yes, the CreateTO people clearly though you could just move a rail line onto a road but then did some more investigation and found there were 'things' under the road. Who knew? Frankly, moving the rails into the ROW on Leslie seems pretty odd to start with but... However, it does seem that Toronto Water may no longer need rail deliveries and the Cruise Ship Terminal line along Unwin has not seen a train for 10+ years so it really may be time to give up. Pity they spent $$$ fixing an unused line but .....
ears

Honestly, I'm rarely stunned by incompetence these days.............

But just imagine for a moment Ports Toronto forces the issue of having the rail line active; and it turns out moving what's under the road is impractical and expensive; and they end up having to tear down the postal facility that just got built and compensate Canada Post so that the track can be returned.

While that's a rather unlikely scenario; its not completely inconceivable and that is completely unforgivable.

FFS, why would one not carry out the requisite investigation before making a deal to move the rail line?

 

[Northern Light]

The City is keen to retain the Redpath sugar refinery on Queens Quay but they now use trucks not trains to remove 'product' and only (?) use ships to deliver the raw sugar. There is clearly a difference between rail lines and factories.

I confess to certain enjoyment of trains, must be a young boy childhood thing.

I would have liked to see the rail connection to Red Path kept; something cool about the odd train rolling alongside the waterfront.

That said, I understand why it was removed; they managed to make it work w/Redpath; freight rail in North America has become almost exclusively long-haul; and except for large customers, rarely covers 'last mile' anymore, that's done intermodally.

I think there probably could still be a market for 'last mile' freight rail; but its one the 'class 1' carriers seemingly have little interest in; and they pretty much only maintain profitable legacy stuff, they would never build that anymore.

 

[Allandale25]

Honestly, I'm rarely stunned by incompetence these days.............

But just imagine for a moment Ports Toronto forces the issue of having the rail line active; and it turns out moving what's under the road is impractical and expensive; and they end up having to tear down the postal facility that just got built and compensate Canada Post so that the track can be returned.

While that's a rather unlikely scenario; its not completely inconceivable and that is completely unforgivable.

FFS, why would not carry out the requisite investigation before making a deal to move the rail line?

I think there might be enough room between the sidewalk and the new Canada Post building to extend the spur but I'm not an expert. It would mean all of the landscaping would be removed.

I guess we'll just have to wait to see over the years if anything changes. Maybe I should check in again with the city planner I spoke with to see if there's any news from their perspective (and see if they are now saying the same thing as CreateTO).

 

[smallspy]

Yes, the CreateTO people clearly though you could just move a rail line onto a road but then did some more investigation and found there were 'things' under the road. Who knew? Frankly, moving the rails into the ROW on Leslie seems pretty odd to start with but... However, it does seem that Toronto Water may no longer need rail deliveries and the Cruise Ship Terminal line along Unwin has not seen a train for 10+ years so it really may be time to give up. Pity they spent $$$ fixing an unused line but .....
ears

The cruise ship terminal had no use for the rail spur - until the 1980s it had been used for some limited container service, and even until 10 years ago was still used to transload to ships from the rail network, or vice versa.

Perhaps PortsToronto has completely given up on Toronto harbour as a freight terminal. Otherwise, I can't see them giving up that easily on the rail line, it's almost a requirement for an active freight port.

Dan

 

[Allandale25]

^ that's fascinating to hear of the limited containers being shipped. Any pictures of it? I assume they were single stacked and not the double stack on three sets of joined cars like wee see on mainline container trains?

 

[urbanperson]

In contrast to Redpath, Lantic Sugar in Mimico makes extensive use of rail and even has their own trackmobile to move cars around. I was able to visit the facility in January and they had plenty of cars on the property. Lantic in Mimico is served by CN L543 from Oakville yard five days per week along with several other customers in that area. L543 is also the train that would and will again(I hope) serve the port spur. It did so on Wednesdays.

 

[lenaitch]

The City is keen to retain the Redpath sugar refinery on Queens Quay but they now use trucks not trains to remove 'product' and only (?) use ships to deliver the raw sugar. There is clearly a difference between rail lines and factories.

The City might be, but growing residential/pedestrian/tourism can clash with big noisy trucks and big rusty ships. Complaints and lobbies to council follows (like a mini version of the airport), perhaps restrictions on operations. At some point a landowner realizes they are not really wanted and sees an opportunity to sell at profit and move on to cheaper climes.

Edit: The Port of Toronto seems to still believe their myth.

Port of Toronto | PortsToronto

www.portstoronto.com

 

[DSC]

The City might be, but growing residential/pedestrian/tourism can clash with big noisy trucks and big rusty ships. Complaints and lobbies to council follows (like a mini version of the airport), perhaps restrictions on operations. At some point a landowner realizes they are not really wanted and sees an opportunity to sell at profit and move on to cheaper climes.

Edit: The Port of Toronto seems to still believe their myth.

Port of Toronto | PortsToronto

www.portstoronto.com

Many people, residents in the area and others , really DO like having Redpath there. Provides employment for locals and reminds us all of our "roots". Would I put it there now? "No". Do I want to see it removed? "No, No, NO"

 

[urbanperson]

Just some more info about Lantic in Mimico. The operation there is a distribution center, and they receive refined sugar by rail from the refinery in Montreal.

I wonder why Redpath stopped using rail. I have searched around and haven't found anything except for some vague mention of "revitalization" in some city report found here: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2014/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-69428.pdf though I do know the spur was abandoned in 2008. Given the size of their operation, you would think that the cost of moving out product by truck rather than rail would be quite high unless they transload it somewhere else. Either way, I didn't know that revitalization meant filling local roads with trucks.