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Licensing Bicycle riders

J

js97

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One of our city councillors (I believe Michael Thompson?) is trying to push a bill that would require bicycle riders to be licensed.

Is this not an absurd bill?

Yes, yes, we have inconsiderate cyclists, but there are traffic obstruction tickets officers can give.

The whole idea of a bike should be the convinience and freedom from bureaucracy.

I guess fisherman are required licenses too... but where does it end? Rollerbladers? Are these the next 'commuters'

Why stop there? Pedestrians!? We have a lot of J walkers, will we need a license to walk on public streets?

I'm losing my mind with this council.
 
Well, I don't know. Maybe it was a play thing or something. When I was in grade school, I remember Elmo the elephant who came to our school to talk about safety on bicycles and the rules of riding a bicycle. Then we were tested what we learned and after that, they gave us this little paper that said we are certified to ride a bicycle. Is that considered a license? I never learned how to ride a bike so it was pretty useless. I threw it out. I didn't even own a bicycle.
 
It's a great idea for cyclists who want to use bike lanes or ride on downtown arterials. Make the fee exceedingly affordable (say, $5/yr), but create a heavy fine for anyone using the routes who don't have the license. As part of the license there should be some sort of insurance coverage (both for the cyclist and for any injuries/damage the cyclist may cause), and there should also be an inspection of the bicycle and cyclist to ensure they meet basic safety criteria (helmet, lights, working brakes, horn or bell).

Something does need to be done tho, because it seems like cyclists are getting increasingly ignorant in the core. This morning I almost got sideswiped by another car because I had to do a rapid evasive swerve to avoid a cyclist a) dressed in black, b) with no headlight (this was at 6AM), and c) with no helmet who decided to swing into my blindspot while I was changing lanes (with my signal on). Of course if I'd just let him run into the side of my car *I'd* be the asshole, and then I'd be on the hook for his injuries as well as the damage to my vehicle.

The other part is enforcement tho. None of the bylaws in the world will help if the police aren't onboard to enforce the rules. They need to set up traps the same way they do to catch speeders and they need to start handing out tickets for failures to stop and riding against traffic and all of those other silly things that suicidal imbeciles do on two wheels
 
I don't think licensing is all that workable but enforcement sure would be nice. My girlfriend got a ticket for running a stop sign on her bike in Hamilton, of all places, when heading to McMaster two years ago. That kind of enforcement seems pretty rare in Toronto.

It doesn't help that the head of the TO cyclist's union doesn't wear a helmet and believes that bikes don't necessarily need to stop at stop signs, though.
 
I support it (I'm a cyclists) and have advocated for it in other cycling threads here. We mostly agree that a large majority of cyclists ride with reckless abandon and there needs to be controls put into place. A written exam, licensing and enforcement for disobeying the rules of the road.
 
whatever said:
The other part is enforcement tho. None of the bylaws in the world will help if the police aren't onboard to enforce the rules. They need to set up traps the same way they do to catch speeders and they need to start handing out tickets for failures to stop and riding against traffic and all of those other silly things that suicidal imbeciles do on two wheels
Click to expand...

They do this!

I see it semi-regularly at two points in my regular commutes that are frequented by bikes.

Bathurst and Adelaide on my way in in the morning. Bike cops are often there just east of Bathurst waiting for violations as people turn east....on my way home I have seen the same sort of thing on Navy Wharf (between BJW and Bremner).

In both of these cases they are also pulling cars over for things like improper turns and no seat belts (and in the case of Navy Wharf for people doing u-turns on BJW) but mostly I see them ticketing cyclists.

The whole bike v car thing is getting a bit heated and people who bike feel cars are the problem and drivers think it is the bikers....the reality is we all get a bit lax in our following of the rules and we forget how it can endanger someone else.....common sense needs to be exhibited and, if your driving, let the crazy bike guy do his crazy stuff but back away from him/her...nothing (no rule or level of anger or "rightness") is worth hurting/killing someone. If your biking, the same goes.....don't put your life at danger over a few seconds and err on the side of caution....that driver beside you might be wrong/a jerk/stupid but if you come together you are going to lose.....park the ego and ride the bike!

leaping off my soap-box and hoping I don't land in front of an oncoming car/bike!
 
Well, great ideals, but is that really practical?

Cops can easily give out tickets now to cyclists that cross reds and zig zag across lanes.
Who will pay for the administration? Who are we kidding, it won't be 5/yr. The councillor is already talking about 60 dollars a year. Children afford this? Clog up our courts for bike that want to fight their tickets?
What will be the age limit? What if I want to take my 6 year old son for a bike ride along my street?

SO many details people have not thought of. It's a knee jerk reaction to a few bad cyclists. If NYC/LONDON/TOKYO/SHANGHAI with an exponentially more traffic/bikers on the road can deal with the problem, why cannot TOronto?

5/yr will not be a realistic fee. SInce it's municipal, you'll need an entire administration to handle it. Have a director, a few managers, oh, let's not forget frontline unionized workers?

What if they go on strike? and I can't renew my license?

I drive and I cycle. Cycling is cheaper and more convinient right now. But when I have to dish out insurance and a license fee, i will most likely drive or get into rollerblading and scooters... until they license those...
 
Cops can easily give out tickets now to cyclists that cross reds and zig zag across lanes. ... Clog up our courts for bike that want to fight their tickets?

So we don't need licenses because cops can already hand out tickets, but we had better not bring in licenses because then if the police start issuing tickets it will clog up the courts? Your points are inconsistent.

Who will pay for the administration? Who are we kidding, it won't be 5/yr. The councillor is already talking about 60 dollars a year. Children afford this? ... 5/yr will not be a realistic fee. SInce it's municipal, you'll need an entire administration to handle it. Have a director, a few managers, oh, let's not forget frontline unionized workers?

It doesn't have to be financially self-sufficient. As a driver I'd be willing to subsidize such a system if it meant safer roads and less aggravation. $60/yr is definitely too much, I'd really only support it if it were a token or symbolic sort of payment.

What will be the age limit? What if I want to take my 6 year old son for a bike ride along my street?

Note I said I thought this would be a great idea on downtown arterials and for the designated bike lanes. If someone wants to take the kid out for a bike ride take then out on a trail or in a park or on a quiet sidestreet. If they want to take them for a leisurely jaunt down Jarvis or Adelaide during rush hour (which is pretty much always, these days) then they're a terrible parent who should be reported to children's aid for jeopardizing the safety and well-being of their child. It pisses me off to no end when I see a cyclist whipping through traffic with a child strapped to the back of the bike, and this sort of behaviour is comparable in my eyes to hanging one's child over a balcony.

What if they go on strike? and I can't renew my license?

This is no different than the situation with any of the provincial licenses. You can always renew ahead of time, and if not there's always leniency for people that have their licenses expire during a strike.

SO many details people have not thought of. It's a knee jerk reaction to a few bad cyclists. If NYC/LONDON/TOKYO/SHANGHAI with an exponentially more traffic/bikers on the road can deal with the problem, why cannot TOronto?

And have you driven in any of those cities? I don't think it a bad thing to want to maintain order on our roads, and there are many added benefits to be had by cyclists, such as recognition as valid users of the road. Plus it would be a good way to encourage bicycle registration to help cut back on thefts, and would raise the profile of cycling in Toronto
 
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js97 said:
Well, great ideals, but is that really practical?

Cops can easily give out tickets now to cyclists that cross reds and zig zag across lanes.
Who will pay for the administration? Who are we kidding, it won't be 5/yr. The councillor is already talking about 60 dollars a year. Children afford this? Clog up our courts for bike that want to fight their tickets?
What will be the age limit? What if I want to take my 6 year old son for a bike ride along my street?

SO many details people have not thought of. It's a knee jerk reaction to a few bad cyclists. If NYC/LONDON/TOKYO/SHANGHAI with an exponentially more traffic/bikers on the road can deal with the problem, why cannot TOronto?

5/yr will not be a realistic fee. SInce it's municipal, you'll need an entire administration to handle it. Have a director, a few managers, oh, let's not forget frontline unionized workers?

What if they go on strike? and I can't renew my license?

I drive and I cycle. Cycling is cheaper and more convinient right now. But when I have to dish out insurance and a license fee, i will most likely drive or get into rollerblading and scooters... until they license those...
Click to expand...

Small bikes like the ones used by kids may be used on the sidewalk correct? Therefore they wouldn't need to be licensed to use the road?
 
We have many perfectly good laws dictating the behaviour of car drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians. They can be used to enforce almost any type of inconsiderate or dangerous behaviour. But they rarely are, because the police and society as a whole consider these things to be minor infractions, even though traffic collisions kill hundreds of Canadians every year. We can add as many laws and regulations as we like, but if we never enforce them, nothing will change.
 
Yes, let's create a new bureaucracy to administer what used to be a basic freedom. Skateboards and rollerblades would be next.

The argument from most in support seems to be "Some people piss me off, so I think the government should regulate them". Anecdotes of annoyance that don't do anything to clarify the supposed problems or provide evidence that licensing will address those problems.

Licensing creates a huge disincentive to cycling - when there is already too large a disincentive created by safety concerns. If you want to improve cycling behaviour why not first try:

1. education programs on safe cycling. information could be distributed though bike shops, and schools - especially middle and high schools, office building bike parking areas.
2. More police safety blitzes.
3. Better education of drivers with regard to cycling rules and how to treat cyclists. I bet most of the people who would be targeted by a cycling license already have driver's licenses - so improving driver education would improve cyclist education.

We should be very reluctant to create area of government bureaucratic oversight. I will take on a life of its own and invent new 'problems' to curtail.
 
js97 said:
If NYC/LONDON/TOKYO/SHANGHAI with an exponentially more traffic/bikers on the road can deal with the problem, why cannot TOronto?
Click to expand...

The vehicular traffic moves more slowly in London and NYC (haven't had the pleasure of experiencing the others). Here, the traffic mostly moves faster generally and the consequences for bike v car interactions are scarier for both parties. :eek: Central London also has more one-way streets systems and they merge into one another, rather than cutting across one another as in our grid pattern so the stopping thing isn't so much of an issue. Cyclists do weave in and out of stationary traffic at rush hour which can be pretty hair-raising as they collide head-on with the J-walking pedestrians...

Londoners have the same complaints about messenger bikes in Central London (insane couriers on mountain bikes) as noted here. They appear to have little sense of self-preservation or respect for other road or pavement users and think nothing of riding up and down steps, across flowerbeds etc. and stopping at red traffic lights is considered the action of a scaredy-cat.

AmJ
 
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The same arguments against cycling licensing could be used against vehicle licensing. I mean what did YD teach me about driving a car that a) I didn't already know, or couldn't learn on my own or b) I didn't quickly forget once I passed and stopped taking lessons?

What makes riding a bicycle an unadultarated right while driving a 'privilege'? Clearly modern cities are built today with car transport as the norm.

A cycling license will be just as much a barrier to cycling as the segregation of the M (motorcycle) and G (general auto) licenses are a barrier to motorcycle usage.

For the record, I'm not sure full out licensing of cyclists will solve anything, but I do think some sort of education is in order for cyclists who choose to use their bikes on a regular basis, as part of their daily commute, and/or in the downtown core. Police should also enforce the laws of the road for all vehicles.
 
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