LCBO / The Beer Store

[PinkLucy]

It very convenient picking up a bottle or two of wine at a US Costco. They even have dedicated staff to advise you. Not as much fun as a visit to Total Wines of course, but it does in a pinch.

Do the new rules open up to wine and beer sales in Ontario Costco?

 

[Northern Light]

It very convenient picking up a bottle or two of wine at a US Costco. They even have dedicated staff to advise you. Not as much fun as a visit to Total Wines of course, but it does in a pinch.

Do the new rules open up to wine and beer sales in Ontario Costco?

We won't know for sure until the announcement Thursday, but assuming one 'reads' Costco as a supermarket, I expect the answer would be 'Yes'.

 

[Northern Light]

Ha! Just after I endeavour to answer @PinkLucy 's query, I see The Star had a new set of leaks:

Doug Ford will expand beer, wine, premixed cocktail sales to big-box stores, gas stations: Sources

The Beer Store will remain on the case for recycling and distribution.

www.thestar.com

From the above:

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[lenaitch]

Ha! Just after I endeavour to answer @PinkLucy 's query, I see The Star had a new set of leaks:

Doug Ford will expand beer, wine, premixed cocktail sales to big-box stores, gas stations: Sources

The Beer Store will remain on the case for recycling and distribution.

www.thestar.com

From the above:

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i suspect that model will fall apart before 2031. With wider sales options, a lot of Beer Store sites will no longer be viable and I can't see them being kept open just to be a bottle return site.

 

[max]

i suspect that model will fall apart before 2031. With wider sales options, a lot of Beer Store sites will no longer be viable and I can't see them being kept open just to be a bottle return site.

One hopes the government will have a stipulation in the agreement for a minimum number of locations for the purpose of bottle return, even better would be to get the beer store to agree to some sort of minimum coverage, but alas that sounds like too much intervention for this government. I expect most Toronto Beer Stores, especially in the old city, to be a thing of the past given the value of the land on which they sit. In fact some of them are already construction sites.

 

[lenaitch]

One hopes the government will have a stipulation in the agreement for a minimum number of locations for the purpose of bottle return, even better would be to get the beer store to agree to some sort of minimum coverage, but alas that sounds like too much intervention for this government. I expect most Toronto Beer Stores, especially in the old city, to be a thing of the past given the value of the land on which they sit. In fact some of them are already construction sites.

I think the whole alcohol beverage deposit-return model will have to be re-visited. In small communities, particularly ones that are distant from the next, a one-trick-pony Beer Store won't be able to compete with a grocery store. If they want to maintain the deposit system, they may have to dragoon the LCBO with its agency store network into the fray, although the owners will demand a different deal.

Depending on how rural you get, blue box recycling can get pretty basic and some areas don't have curbside waste pickup of any kind.

 

[Northern Light]

The official presser is out for the much leaked changes:

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

From the above:

 

[lenaitch]

It was the topic on CBC Radio's noon call-in show today. One proponent - I think he was from the C D Howe Institute, was pretty much over the top with the coming change, using such terms as 'monumental' and that it will have a direct and profound impact on everyone's lives.

One point touched on was the need for oversight and enforcement to prevent under-aged persons from accessing liquor. While it might be better at grocery stores and perhaps chain convenience stores, a minimum wage teenager or recently landed immigrant is going to be hard pressed to really care. While everyone agreed that the government 'should' ensure regulatory oversight, having worked for for the government, including the AGCO specifically, I highly doubt we will see much in the way of proactive enforcement. All governments like having regulations, but they don't like regulating.

 

[PinkLucy]

I always get a chuckle when buying alcohol at grocery stores in some states and I have to produce my ID

 

[gabe]

The official presser is out for the much leaked changes:

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

From the above:

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The recycling program is such a joke! How can Ontario let a foreign owned company have 100% control with bottle/can returns, when climate change is a threat to human well-being and the health of the planet. Even the most right wing sates and Alberta, have better bottle deposits systems than Ontario! They take all cans and bottles regardless if they had alcohol in them or not.

 

[gabe]

I always get a chuckle when buying alcohol at grocery stores in some states and I have to produce my ID

Ontario will eventually do the same. In a lot of states they have mandatory ID laws to buy alcohol. Doesn't matter if you are 21 or 101. You need to show ID

 

[toraerach]

It was the topic on CBC Radio's noon call-in show today. One proponent - I think he was from the C D Howe Institute, was pretty much over the top with the coming change, using such terms as 'monumental' and that it will have a direct and profound impact on everyone's lives.

One point touched on was the need for oversight and enforcement to prevent under-aged persons from accessing liquor. While it might be better at grocery stores and perhaps chain convenience stores, a minimum wage teenager or recently landed immigrant is going to be hard pressed to really care. While everyone agreed that the government 'should' ensure regulatory oversight, having worked for for the government, including the AGCO specifically, I highly doubt we will see much in the way of proactive enforcement. All governments like having regulations, but they don't like regulating.

Convenience stores and gas stations already sell many age-restricted products, such as tobacco and lottery. Regulations are already strictly enforced. I don't see why alcohol sales would be any different.

 

[Napalm Frog]

Tobacco and lottery is gatekept behind the counter by the cashier. Alcohol is most jurisdictions will be in the fridges with the soft drinks, barring the super fancy/expensive stuff. A lot easier for kids or shoplifters to pilfer.

On that note, I was at Bottega Volo today when a field trip movie screening for some middle schoolers ended, and they locked up access to the alcohol fridges and the set of doors next to the beer as the kids made their way through the lobby. Apples vs oranges compared to what convenience/grocery stores will have to deal with as Volo is essentially a dedicated bottle shop, but its good to see an establishment taking proactive action,

 

[lenaitch]

Regulations are already strictly enforced

No . . . they are not.

There is a tad more accountability with lottery because of the terminal network but there is virtually no proactive enforcement. Tobacco regs are enforced by local Health Units/local municipal governments and we all know they are just dripping with staff.

 

[PL1]

No . . . they are not.

There is a tad more accountability with lottery because of the terminal network but there is virtually no proactive enforcement. Tobacco regs are enforced by local Health Units/local municipal governments and we all know they are just dripping with staff.

IMHO, it should be a high fine, 3-strikes system for any regulated substances (tobacco, cannabis, alcohol), with a permanent loss of license after a 3rd offense.

This (fines) is why they always ask for ID in large parts of the US: no cashier wants to lose their job and receive a large fine for selling without checking age.