LCBO / The Beer Store

[TOareaFan]

Pretty much nothing in the city at all.

With so few licenses in this first batch to spread around the province there was always going to be gaps....like the 4th largest municipality in the province getting exactly zero!

 

[W. K. Lis]

Wonder where in the United States did Ontario look for an example to follow for its liquor laws revisions?

 

[Johnny Au]

I have put in a Voronoi diagram the location of grocery stores that sell beer in Ontario.

I used this website: http://lpetrich.org/Science/GeometryDemo/GeometryDemo_GMap.html

 

[Dan416]

What a surprise barely anything for Mississauga, and where they chose are close to LCBOs already. #fail

 

[Johnny Au]

My neighbourhood is rather devoid of alcohol retailers (it helps that I don't drink). However, there are a few just outside my neighourhood.

An LCBO just opened at Lawrence and Bathurst, though the LCBO at Yorkdale moved across the 401 to be near Costco, Best Buy, and the Home Depot.

Fortinos in Lawrence Square sells wine (albeit in a private store-within-a-store called Wine Rack).

The Beer Store at Keele and Lawrence relocated to the formerly dry Stockyards; the LCBO at Keele and Lawrence expanded though.

The Beer Store at St. Clair and Lauder relocated to Oakwood north of Vaughan.

 

[Tewder]

I know this is probably asking too much but has Queen's Park divulged their 'logic' - for lack of a better term - in determining which municipalities are able to handle beer in grocery stores and which ones apparently are not?

This whole mess started with the reveal of a government cartel. Today? We still have a cartel and even murkier regulations surrounding what is a completely legal product. Time for this nonsense to end! Is there anybody around challenging the government monopoly and corrupt cartels we are paying the price for?

Kick starter campaign??

 

[TOareaFan]

What a surprise barely anything for Mississauga, and where they chose are close to LCBOs already. #fail

There are, what, 58 stores....Mississauga has 2 of them? So 3.5% of the outlets in a city with, what, 5.5% of the province's population at the 2011 census....seems 'sauga got close to "fair share" given the limited number of licenses granted.

 

[Johnny Au]

I have added in the York Mills location, which I forgot to add in the previous image.

 

[Translude15]

Allowing beer sales in certain grocery stores got me thinking: if beer and alcohol is already heavily taxed, why does Ontario need the LCBO and Beer Store to sell alcohol when taxes from sales in grocery or corner stores would go to provincial coffers anyways?

I'm anticipating some sort of response of "maximizing sales for the province" but certainly grocery retailers could do the job just as well.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The LCBO and The Beer Store are unionized. Helps the coffers of the union leaders when they get union dues due them.

 

[TOareaFan]

Allowing beer sales in certain grocery stores got me thinking: if beer and alcohol is already heavily taxed, why does Ontario need the LCBO and Beer Store to sell alcohol when taxes from sales in grocery or corner stores would go to provincial coffers anyways?

I'm anticipating some sort of response of "maximizing sales for the province" but certainly grocery retailers could do the job just as well.

Through the LCBO the provincial treasury benefits from the tax revenue and, as you noted, they still would do so if someone other than the LCBO sold the same bottle(s).....but being the retailer as well as the taxer allows the province to also profit from the retailer's mark up on the product itself. LCBO is profitable ( very much so) over and above the tax revenue.

 

[Translude15]

Through the LCBO the provincial treasury benefits from the tax revenue and, as you noted, they still would do so if someone other than the LCBO sold the same bottle(s).....but being the retailer as well as the taxer allows the province to also profit from the retailer's mark up on the product itself. LCBO is profitable ( very much so) over and above the tax revenue.

In which case doesn't its immense profitability over and above the tax revenue make its existence pretty redundant?

 

[TOareaFan]

In which case doesn't its immense profitability over and above the tax revenue make its existence pretty redundant?

how so? If the province just closed the LCBO and let others sell alchohol instead...all the province would get is the tax revenue and the "others" would make the retailer markup...yes those profits would, in turn, get taxed but there would be a hole in the provincial coffers because they would simply be earning a percentage of the profits rather than getting all of them.

 

[W. K. Lis]

If the province privatized the LCBO, those high paying jobs at the LCBO would be forced to be lowered or they will disappear. The province will still get their revenue through the taxes on alcohol.

 

[Translude15]

how so? If the province just closed the LCBO and let others sell alchohol instead...all the province would get is the tax revenue and the "others" would make the retailer markup...yes those profits would, in turn, get taxed but there would be a hole in the provincial coffers because they would simply be earning a percentage of the profits rather than getting all of them.

Sure, the LCBO would still exist in some capacity in terms of setting regulations on the sale of alcohol, determining rate of taxation and collecting tax revenue from alcohol sales. But as W.K. Lis suggested above, it's pretty clear where the entirety of the profits go.

It's not like we're talking about selling nano-carbon technology here, it's booze. The province doesn't need such a massive bureaucratic entity to source, distribute and sell alcohol when private retailers have the wherewithal to do the exact same job.