AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Wouldn't surprise me. It doesn't help that a good number of state capitals are relatively small urban centres for which rail service would make little sense.
AoD
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Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor
- Thread starter Urban Sky
- Start date
Wouldn't surprise me. It doesn't help that a good number of state capitals are relatively small urban centres for which rail service would make little sense.
AoD
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Browsing through the list of State capitals, I have no trouble believing this, but apparently only Canada becomes a hopeless backwater if it doesn‘t bother to link all capitals of its constituents members by a national passenger rail network:
List of U.S. State Capitals | Britannica
This is a list of the cities that are state capitals in the United States, ordered alphabetically by state. The list also provides the most recent U.S. census population for each city as well as an estimated population. (This list does not include the capital of the United States, Washington, D.C.)
www.britannica.com
micheal_can
Senior Member
There is nothing meaningful along the old ROW.
Now.... do you want to talk about putting the old Canadian back, but through SSM and North Bay, as well as extending the Ocean to Toronto and the Canadian to Montreal? Before you do,I recommend getting another beverage.....
It isn't happening now, and it won't happen ever. most provinces would soon see Via shut down.
I understand the challenges.That is why there is a goodc hance it would have seen no stops in the USA except for crew changes, if even that.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Browsing through the list of State capitals, I have no trouble believing this, but apparently only Canada becomes a hopeless backwater if it doesn‘t bother to link all capitals of its constituents members by a national passenger rail network:
List of U.S. State Capitals | Britannica
This is a list of the cities that are state capitals in the United States, ordered alphabetically by state. The list also provides the most recent U.S. census population for each city as well as an estimated population. (This list does not include the capital of the United States, Washington, D.C.)
In any case does it even matter? The fact that the Windsor - Quebec City Corridor linked the provincial capitals of the two largest provinces by population and it didn't create a strong provincial politician interest in passenger rail (other than lip-service).
AoD
micheal_can
Senior Member
Browsing through the list of State capitals, I have no trouble believing this, but apparently only Canada becomes a hopeless backwater if it doesn‘t bother to link all capitals of its constituents members by a national passenger rail network:
List of U.S. State Capitals | Britannica
This is a list of the cities that are state capitals in the United States, ordered alphabetically by state. The list also provides the most recent U.S. census population for each city as well as an estimated population. (This list does not include the capital of the United States, Washington, D.C.)
What is the largest city that is connectedby the NA railway network that does not have passenger service?
Urban Sky
Senior Member
It absolutely doesn’t. I‘m all up for defining minimum service standards by population size, but it should be agnostic about the mode which provides the link…
Phoenix/AZ with a metropolitan population of 4.8 million, i.e. three times that of Calgary and more than the entire population of Alberta…
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micheal_can
Senior Member
30 miles/48km away....
VS
300km.
So, new question, What is the largest city in the continental USA that has a substantial distance to intercity rail?
Substantial would mean that all but the most rail fans would not drive/take transit to it.
BTW,Amtrak does have their Thruway bus service to connect Maricopa Station to Phoenix.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
You asked me a question and I provided you the only correct answer. It‘s neither my problem nor concern that you apparently hoped that the answer would be very different…
micheal_can
Senior Member
Fair enough.
Phoenix is not even on this list.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
It actually is included in a seperate section of the same list called „Cities with nearby services“ which includes cities which „are not directly served by inter-city rail service, but have a rail station within 35 miles (56 km) of the city“. However, I believe that if you asked any passenger which used both, the Amtrak station in Albany-Rensellear and the one in Maricopa, they would agree that Albany is served by Amtrak whereas Phoenix isn‘t…Fair enough.
Phoenix is not even on this list.
micheal_can
Senior Member
The semantics of this won't solve anything.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Phoenix is not served by any intercity passenger rail service, deal with it. In the meanwhile, it‘s a good reminder that certain States in the US are just as indifferent about intercity passenger rail as basically any province except (rather recently) ON and QC…
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micheal_can
Senior Member
One thing I have been noticing is a growing "me" attitude towards any government funding. Too many people have the attitude that if they don't directly benefit from it, it is not worth spending money on. That is why two tier health services are popular, it gets "me" to the front of the line.
I'd bet that if a poll was done of all Ontarians who do not use GO and never will, and who never use public transit, and never will were asked if they would support cancelling GO and all subsides be returned in the form of a tax cut, I'd bet that result would be quite high, maybe even 100%. That does not mean it should be canceled and it does not mean we should listen to those people.
To argue that because somewhere has air service and bus service that it does not need rail service is a red herring. If anything, it is because they have those services that it could be argued that the right amount of rail service would do well.Something akin to the Northlander's returning service would make sense for most places.
In the Windsor - Quebec City Corridor,there is no one seat ticket from the 2 ends. There will be a transfer somewhere along the way. That is how all intercity rail service in Canada can be. We don't need land yachts. We need reliable intercity service that runs regularly enough to be useful.
So,if we want to fix the problems causing the lack of meaningful passenger rail service outside the W-QC Corridor, we first must change our attitudes.
I'd bet that if a poll was done of all Ontarians who do not use GO and never will, and who never use public transit, and never will were asked if they would support cancelling GO and all subsides be returned in the form of a tax cut, I'd bet that result would be quite high, maybe even 100%. That does not mean it should be canceled and it does not mean we should listen to those people.
To argue that because somewhere has air service and bus service that it does not need rail service is a red herring. If anything, it is because they have those services that it could be argued that the right amount of rail service would do well.Something akin to the Northlander's returning service would make sense for most places.
In the Windsor - Quebec City Corridor,there is no one seat ticket from the 2 ends. There will be a transfer somewhere along the way. That is how all intercity rail service in Canada can be. We don't need land yachts. We need reliable intercity service that runs regularly enough to be useful.
So,if we want to fix the problems causing the lack of meaningful passenger rail service outside the W-QC Corridor, we first must change our attitudes.
lenaitch
Senior Member
No arguing that; I was just pointing out that saying a rail line between two points still exists by utilizing a completely different route that ultimately and circuitously connects them is a tad disingenuous.
As to second point, I do not. As far as I'm concerned, Canadian exists primarily as a tourist service with a little bit of inter-city a remote service thrown in. Snaking a trans-continental service so it touches as many bases as possible would just degrade it even further. Now, I admit that, personally, if they shifted it back to the CP route in northern Ontario I would ride it in a heartbeat (to TBay and back).
Pax rail service to and between northern cities should be considered on their own merits, not dumped onto Canadian. I stand to be corrected, but when Canadian serviced Montreal, it operated as a section via the Ottawa Valley, which joined with its other section from Toronto in Sudbury.
On the same note, I'm not sure I see the benefit of extending already long routes, providing (and this is a significant caveat), lay-over times and connection are reasonable. Sure, as a tourist service, it might be a good marketing angle to be able to go coast-to-coast with one change, but there are better ways around that. If that is the end goal, why not a Halifax-Vancouver Canadian?
ARG1
Senior Member
FWIW, Maricopa is considered to effectively be Phoenix' Amtrak Station - with a shuttle bus offered by Amtrak to get people to downtown Phoenix from Maricopa. As such, in a very technical way you could argue that Phoenix is served by an Amtrak station. In a way its similar to the setup in San Francisco where the train stops in Oakland rather than San Francisco itself (although comparing Oakland with Maricopa is just plain hilarious). Still, even if the connection is really bad, there's a pretty big difference in quality between Phoenix and Calgary where Calgary literally has nothing.