Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor

[crs1026]

Since Via'sc Canadian also uses the line south of Washago, would a joint provincial/federal funding to cover the costs to double track that section be warranted?

The Canadian is run on a "whatever the track allows, we will accept".... so I doubt VIA would have any luck getting funding for an improvement that has little impact on a 4-night schedule.

I thought the slow sections these days are more due to track condition as apposed to track geometry.

That was my point - even when you look back to a past era when track condition was better, the line wasn't very fast. The underlying track geometry limits any potential increase in speed.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

The Canadian is run on a "whatever the track allows, we will accept".... so I doubt VIA would have any luck getting funding for an improvement that has little impact on a 4-night schedule.

That is why I said joint. One could see this as a potential GO extension too. It doesn't need to come from Via specifically, but from the federal government.

That was my point - even when you look back to a past era when track condition was better, the line wasn't very fast. The underlying track geometry limits any potential increase in speed.

- Paul

Would having tilting trains be any better?

 

[crs1026]

That is why I said joint. One could see this as a potential GO extension too. It doesn't need to come from Via specifically, but from the federal government.

Would having tilting trains be any better?

If Jack Dawson had hung onto Rose’s liferaft as tenaciously as you are holding onto this, James Cameron would have had to write a different ending to the Titanic movie lol.

I can't imagine Ottawa taking an interest in this project. It's a provincial initiative and they are funding it to a large amount.

Tilting trains might help, sure…. In 30 years when the new Siemens trains are worn out.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

If Jack Dawson had hung onto Rose’s liferaft as tenaciously as you are holding onto this, James Cameron would have had to write a different ending to the Titanic movie lol.

I can't imagine Ottawa taking an interest in this project. It's a provincial initiative and they are funding it to a large amount.

Tilting trains might help, sure…. In 30 years when the new Siemens trains are worn out.

- Paul

Maybe by then Via will have expanded beyond what exists for their long distance service.

 

[Urban Sky]

Maybe by then Via will have expanded beyond what exists for their long distance service.

Would you give us your word that you won’t bring up your suggestion again until VIA has actually increased its long distance service over that particular part of the Bala Sub?

 

[micheal_can]

Would you give us your word that you won’t bring up your suggestion again until VIA has actually increased its long distance service over that particular part of the Bala Sub?

Only if the only reason that Via or any other transportation agency doesn't do anything outside of the existing service is money.
In other words, you asked this type of discussion to not be on the main Via forum and I try my best to comply.

 

[lenaitch]

Since Via'sc Canadian also uses the line south of Washago, would a joint provincial/federal funding to cover the costs to double track that section be warranted?

I don't think anybody has mused about double tracking. ONR's 'updated initial business case' only speaks to adding a passing track on the Bala sub:

"A capacity study determined that rail corridor upgrades would enhance travel time and reliability of the Northeast Passenger Rail service. The study proposed a new siding north of Zephyr to facilitate train meets between Ontario Northland and CN trains. Preliminary cost estimates for this siding are included in the capital requirements of this business case, though future delivery will be determined though negotiations with CN." (page 75)

I don't know if GO has any plans for the Bala sub to serve their needs, but they only go to Bloomington anyway.

 

[micheal_can]

I don't think anybody has mused about double tracking. ONR's 'updated initial business case' only speaks to adding a passing track on the Bala sub:

"A capacity study determined that rail corridor upgrades would enhance travel time and reliability of the Northeast Passenger Rail service. The study proposed a new siding north of Zephyr to facilitate train meets between Ontario Northland and CN trains. Preliminary cost estimates for this siding are included in the capital requirements of this business case, though future delivery will be determined though negotiations with CN." (page 75)

I don't know if GO has any plans for the Bala sub to serve their needs, but they only go to Bloomington anyway.

AFAIK there has been nothing outside of that passing track that I have seen as well.

If GO wants to get north of Barrie on existing track, using the Bala Sub would be the way to do it without laying new tracks. If this ever happens, this would be at least 10-20 years out before they might look at it. Extending GO on it gets them Georgina and Beaverton which are commuting towns. There are go buses, so when they see enough traffic on their buses, they might look that way.

And then there is the if... if the Northlander is a success, and the province wants to add more service to Northern ON from Toronto to places like Sudbury/SSM I doubt the CP MacTier sub would be used.It would most likely be the Bala Sub to where they directionally run like the Canadian.

And then there is the "What is to happen to the Budd RDCs" question. Maybe it gets extended south and west, or just south. That would add 3 more trains a week at current service levels.

All of this is a "wait and see", but wonder. I feel most of this is based on 3 things:
1) the success of the Northlander.
2) what happens to the HEP fleet in a few years once the Siemens fleet has arrived.
3) if GO wishes to expand along this line further. This is the least likely factor.

 

[Urban Sky]

Only if the only reason that Via or any other transportation agency doesn't do anything outside of the existing service is money.
In other words, you asked this type of discussion to not be on the main Via forum and I try my best to comply.

You are of course right: this is the thread dedicated to your own fantasies and you can waste your time (and advocacy) and that of other contributors as much as you want by clinging to even the tiniest of straws to maintain your ideas by simply waving away any concerns that your inexhaustible optimism might be based on little more than wishful thinking and a complete disregard for reality.

I should probably just work a bit on my self-restraint to resist the temptation of hitting the „show ignored content“ button…

 

[micheal_can]

You are of course right: this is the thread dedicated to your own fantasies and you can waste your time (and advocacy) and that of other contributors as much as you want by clinging to even the tiniest of straws to maintain your ideas by simply waving away any concerns that your inexhaustible optimism might be based on little more than wishful thinking and a complete disregard for reality.

I should probably just work a bit on my self-restraint to resist the temptation of hitting the „show ignored content“ button…

Your information is valuable as it helps me (and others here like me) understand the hurdles to make this thread irrelevant.
One day, wouldn't it be nice if a thread about a lack of meaningful passenger rail transportation outside the Quebec City - Windsor Corridor no longer could point at a routes that might be plausible?
Just in 1 day,I have learned several issues with certain routes. I look forward to learn more about other routes.

 

[lenaitch]

And then there is the if... if the Northlander is a success, and the province wants to add more service to Northern ON from Toronto to places like Sudbury/SSM I doubt the CP MacTier sub would be used.It would most likely be the Bala Sub to where they directionally run like the Canadian.

VIA Canadian currently uses both CN Bala and CP MacTier sub due to directional running. Parry Sound has two VIA stations.

 

[micheal_can]

VIA Canadian currently uses both CN Bala and CP MacTier sub due to directional running. Parry Sound has two VIA stations.

Yes, but it uses the Bala Sub south of Washago only. That is the section I meant.

 

[lenaitch]

Yes, but it uses the Bala Sub south of Washago only. That is the section I meant.

Then they don't "directionally run it" on the CN Bala sub. South of Parry Sound, Canadian runs exclusively, e/b and w/b, on the Bala sub.

 

[micheal_can]

Then they don't "directionally run it" on the CN Bala sub. South of Parry Sound, Canadian runs exclusively, e/b and w/b, on the Bala sub.

They use the entire MacTier sub from Toronto w/b?

 

[micheal_can]

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Washago is a stop both ways. That means they need to use the Bala sub.