L Tower Condos (Cityzen, Castlepoint Realty, Fernbrook Homes) - Real Estate -

Xenosblitz said:
I haven't heard anything. If you're within 3 months of the interim occupancy date, generally they cannot extend it by more than 2 weeks from that date from what I gather. Its before the 3 month mark that is "dangerous" since they can extend it by months on end. If anybody knows more, please speak up!

I got a quick glimpse a week ago at the entrance. The plywood is gone. Its just a plastic sheet now covering the entrance to the lobby. That should be a good sign.
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If that 3 month rule is true, then we're well within it now. My date is supposed to be July 21, and its now June 5. So it would seem we can expect to move in. However I've been calling their office for confirmation of the date and the designated person, Maria, always tells me she expects to hear "later today" or "tomorrow" whether there will be an additional delay, and then she never does hear and she never calls me back. I call HER back and ask and she always says she still doesn't know. I don't blame her really since its clearly not her decision to make, but it's super frustrating.

So if there is a rule that they can't extend anymore, but then they still don't move us in, what is our recourse? Are there any actual consequences? It seems like the only thing they could really do for us is release us from our contracts, but then you lose all the equity that's built up and they get to turn around and sell your unit for a bigger profit. And if you want to live there, then that's obvi not a good solution. So it seems like they have zero consequences for their delay and they can just do whatever they want.
 
riley said:
If that 3 month rule is true, then we're well within it now. My date is supposed to be July 21, and its now June 5. So it would seem we can expect to move in. However I've been calling their office for confirmation of the date and the designated person, Maria, always tells me she expects to hear "later today" or "tomorrow" whether there will be an additional delay, and then she never does hear and she never calls me back. I call HER back and ask and she always says she still doesn't know. I don't blame her really since its clearly not her decision to make, but it's super frustrating.

So if there is a rule that they can't extend anymore, but then they still don't move us in, what is our recourse? Are there any actual consequences? It seems like the only thing they could really do for us is release us from our contracts, but then you lose all the equity that's built up and they get to turn around and sell your unit for a bigger profit. And if you want to live there, then that's obvi not a good solution. So it seems like they have zero consequences for their delay and they can just do whatever they want.
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Here is a link from the Tarion site. There is some distinction between contracts signed before 2008 and after. I don't know the exact details, though.

http://www.tarion.com/Warranty-Prot...es/Condominiums-Tentative-Occupancy-Date.aspx

If I remember correctly from your previous posts, Riley, you're not at the base of the building. I think a good indicator for all of us "later" occupiers would be to base our expectation of move in dates on when the first people move in. People say a good rule of thumb is 1 week per floor, but I think in this case it'll be closer to 2-3 floors per week. I have seen a builder move in people at 1 floor per day, but that building had no cranes/hoists and it was essentially 95% complete inside when they started the rapid move ins.

I don't think any of us should give our units back to the builder, even if they delay more. We'll be losing out on a good size profit if we do so. Plus, I am confident that this building is the best upper-middle luxury building in the city today - outside the four 5 star hotel luxury residences.

I'll be in the neighbourhood in a week or so. I'll report back as to whether the lobby has a door then.
 
Xenosblitz said:
Here is a link from the Tarion site. There is some distinction between contracts signed before 2008 and after. I don't know the exact details, though.

http://www.tarion.com/Warranty-Prot...es/Condominiums-Tentative-Occupancy-Date.aspx

If I remember correctly from your previous posts, Riley, you're not at the base of the building. I think a good indicator for all of us "later" occupiers would be to base our expectation of move in dates on when the first people move in. People say a good rule of thumb is 1 week per floor, but I think in this case it'll be closer to 2-3 floors per week. I have seen a builder move in people at 1 floor per day, but that building had no cranes/hoists and it was essentially 95% complete inside when they started the rapid move ins.

I don't think any of us should give our units back to the builder, even if they delay more. We'll be losing out on a good size profit if we do so. Plus, I am confident that this building is the best upper-middle luxury building in the city today - outside the four 5 star hotel luxury residences.

I'll be in the neighbourhood in a week or so. I'll report back as to whether the lobby has a door then.
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Thanks Xeno ... any information as to current status and what you see there currently would be great !
 
wolf said:
Hey TorontoMike$$

Have you received a letter?
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No letter yet. But heard verbally from a credible source.
Purchasers basically have no rights under Tarion. The amendments from the builder have verbiage stating basically you waive rights under tarion
 
so typical. buyers of pre-con have no rights what so ever.

TorontoMike$$ said:
No letter yet. But heard verbally from a credible source.
Purchasers basically have no rights under Tarion. The amendments from the builder have verbiage stating basically you waive rights under tarion
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TorontoMike$$ said:
No letter yet. But heard verbally from a credible source.
Purchasers basically have no rights under Tarion. The amendments from the builder have verbiage stating basically you waive rights under tarion
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Tarion protects the builder's interests. Not the purchaser's. Has always been like that.
 
My reply would be the same - buyers are making a ton of dough

You have to realize that most buyers here would have paid $500-$525 per square back in 2007. resale prices in this building should go for $725-$750 per foot to start so even with a price adjustment (which I don't see happening) there is still huge gains.

Other than the 4-5 ultra lux buildings in Toronto this one will be tops IMO.
 
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I just got a call from Fernbrook. They told me that my move in date of July 21 is now being moved to September 15. The new thing that happened though, besides the fact that they called me to tell me rather than just send a letter, is that they also asked if I would be interested in signing an amendment agreeing to the delay, and if I sign, then they will waive the rule that prohibits leasing the unit during occupancy period. This amendment makes me think that they aren't within their normal rights to extend again, if they actually need us to sign something agreeing to it. I asked what would happen if we didn't sign it, and she said they would just delay it anyway. Zero consequences! The reason she gave me for the delay was "permits", but she couldn't or wouldn't specify what kind of permits. She said that's all the information there is. I asked if there was someone else I could speak with who had more information and she said NO one had more information, which is obviously crazy. She also wanted to know if I would sign the amendment and I said I wanted to read it first, but she insisted on finding out if I was "interested" in signing it, and I just said I'm interested in reading it. They can't make you agree to sign something you haven't even seen. They also sent my lawyer the notice for the delay already, but they never sent him the amendment.
 
riley said:
I just got a call from Fernbrook. They told me that my move in date of July 21 is now being moved to September 15. The new thing that happened though, besides the fact that they called me to tell me rather than just send a letter, is that they also asked if I would be interested in signing an amendment agreeing to the delay, and if I sign, then they will waive the rule that prohibits leasing the unit during occupancy period. This amendment makes me think that they aren't within their normal rights to extend again, if they actually need us to sign something agreeing to it. I asked what would happen if we didn't sign it, and she said they would just delay it anyway. Zero consequences! The reason she gave me for the delay was "permits", but she couldn't or wouldn't specify what kind of permits. She said that's all the information there is. I asked if there was someone else I could speak with who had more information and she said NO one had more information, which is obviously crazy. She also wanted to know if I would sign the amendment and I said I wanted to read it first, but she insisted on finding out if I was "interested" in signing it, and I just said I'm interested in reading it. They can't make you agree to sign something you haven't even seen. They also sent my lawyer the notice for the delay already, but they never sent him the amendment.
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I don't know why you would sign anything without getting a lawyer to review.

I have the day off today, so I was doing a bit of research as to how much longer the builder can delay without compensating us (I assumed Mike's comments about signing our rights away is incorrect for argument's sake).

This link is to a Tarion document for agreements signed 2008+ (most of us won't fit in this category):

http://www.tarion.com/New-Home-Buil...Builder Bulletins/BB47 07.01.2012 (v4 BL).pdf

This link is for pre-2008 (from a law firm):
http://www.cklegal.ca/doc/OCCUPANCY_DATES_APR2007.pdf

My interpretation of the pre-2008 is that Riley should have a case for compensation of $100/day up to $5,000. I'm still uncertain about the rest of us with later occupancy dates since I'm not within the 3 month window yet myself. The questions here are 1) Does the previous delays count towards the 120 day allowable delay? 2) Did we really sign our rights away?

The take away here is to not sign anything until legal opinion is obtained. I don't see why they would even bother strong arming you if they don't need your signature to delay more. It just creates an atmosphere of bad customer service for no reason.

As usual, if anybody hears anything, please post here. I would greatly appreciate it.
 
Riley,

You should be able to get compensation if you don't agree to their amendment....

According to Tarion:
Delayed Occupancy Compensation

Delayed occupancy compensation up to a maximum of $7,500 is payable:

• If occupancy occurs on a date after the Firm Occupancy Date; or
• If you exercised your right to terminate the purchase agreement due to delay as permitted by the Addendum
(e.g. as per the Purchaser’s Termination Period). In this case you are also entitled to a full refund of all monies paid (i.e., deposits, extras and upgrades) plus interest.

Delayed occupancy compensation for living expenses (meals and accommodation) is payable based on a fixed amount of $150 a day for each day of delay until the Delayed Occupancy Date or the date that the purchase agreement is terminated. Receipts for living expenses are not required.

Compensation is also payable for costs incurred by you as a result of the delay (for example, additional moving and storage costs). Receipts for these costs must be provided.

In addition, if your builder fails to give you 10 days notice of an occupancy delay, you will be compensated in the amount of $1,500 ($150 x 10 days).
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I have a unit last year that had a delayed closing and I was compensated $100/day (I agreed to their terms) until occupancy, the delay was about 20 days (don't remember exactly). The situation is probably a little bit different from yours though as I believe the my unit is somehow the only one (or one of the very few) that were delayed. The rest were on time. Whereas for the L Tower the delay is across the board...
 
Xenosblitz said:
I don't know why you would sign anything without getting a lawyer to review.

I have the day off today, so I was doing a bit of research as to how much longer the builder can delay without compensating us (I assumed Mike's comments about signing our rights away is incorrect for argument's sake).

This link is to a Tarion document for agreements signed 2008+ (most of us won't fit in this category):

http://www.tarion.com/New-Home-Buil...Builder Bulletins/BB47 07.01.2012 (v4 BL).pdf

This link is for pre-2008 (from a law firm):
http://www.cklegal.ca/doc/OCCUPANCY_DATES_APR2007.pdf

My interpretation of the pre-2008 is that Riley should have a case for compensation of $100/day up to $5,000. I'm still uncertain about the rest of us with later occupancy dates since I'm not within the 3 month window yet myself. The questions here are 1) Does the previous delays count towards the 120 day allowable delay? 2) Did we really sign our rights away?

The take away here is to not sign anything until legal opinion is obtained. I don't see why they would even bother strong arming you if they don't need your signature to delay more. It just creates an atmosphere of bad customer service for no reason.

As usual, if anybody hears anything, please post here. I would greatly appreciate it.
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Thanks for the research Xenos. That's really interesting, and the article does indeed refer to the 90 days before occupancy date. I'll have to check the letter to see if they used the word "confirmed" or "tentative" or what. I'm going to ask my lawyer about the compensation. That would be great even as a token.
 
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