Kitchener to Toronto train service & the tech sector

[mdrejhon]

Oh, it would get used, and both would have good transit networks. I just wonder how long it would be to get the service as fast as 15 minutes - especially once Breslau station opens, which would slow things down. It's about the same distance as from Union to Pearson, and though it would be nice to see that take 15 minutes, it's going to take 25 minutes.

Pearson is slightly farther from Union due to the corridor curve and the spur, and UPX has more stops. Also, if Kitchener-Guelph speed was the same speed as Barrie or Lakeshore West, it would be 15 minutes. This is easier if electricified and all right-of-ways eliminated. 15 minutes could be doable if that was done. Less than 15 minutes could theoretically be doable; the railroad bewteen Kitchener and Guelph is a very straight arrow with only a couple minor gentle curves. Straightness exists in a long section to support >200kph, if it was ever upgraded to a true HSR. It's currently slow because many parts are currently a single-track railroad with many surface crossings, sometimes very close to backyards. A dedicated dual-track electricified right of way is another story.

I'm also thinking of it as a low-cost way to get people in those cities used to the idea of taking the train, and make better use of the corridor. Almost as much a PR move as anything else.

Yes, a 15-minute Kitchener-Guelph trip would likely have an amplification effect on people taking Toronto trains. It's fast enough that if taking public transit to the stations through the transit upgrades, it would be competitive to driving in traffic, and would create a multiple-fold increase in traffic.

 

[reaperexpress]

I just wonder how long it would be to get the service as fast as 15 minutes - especially once Breslau station opens, which would slow things down. It's about the same distance as from Union to Pearson, and though it would be nice to see that take 15 minutes, it's going to take 25 minutes.

I threw in Breslau station specifically to slow things down since 15 minute travel times translate to an awkward 45 minute headway for a single DMU/EMU shuttling between K-W and Guelph. An 18-20 minute travel time would translate to a nice round 60 minute headway. The 15 minute travel time would apply to trains not stopping in Breslau (i.e. GO Regional and VIA Intercity trains to Toronto).

The UP "Express" is a vastly different beast than a K-W to Guelph shuttle would be. It starts off weaving through the USRC at limited speeds, then travelling along the busy Weston corridor making two intermediate stops and potentially slowing to change tracks a couple times, and finally travelling at limited speed along the meandering Pearson guideway.

The K-W to Guelph segment would be nothing like that once the railway is fixed up. It would be much more similar to:

Trenton to Belleville is 20km, which takes 13 to 14 minutes by VIA (86 to 92 km/h)
Oakville to Aldershot is 22km, which takes 12 to 14 minutes by VIA (94 to 110 km/h)
Bradford to Barrie South is 29km, which takes 19 minutes by GO (92 km/h)
Guildwood to Oshawa is 31km, which takes 15 to 16 minutes by VIA (116 to 124 km/h)

 

[royalrivers]

Kitchener to Bramalea then express to/from Union train coming in 2016?

Express service:
•In addition to the services outlined above, communities between Oakville and Hamilton on the Lakeshore West line, between Bramalea and Kitchener on the Kitchener line, and between Pickering and Oshawa on the Lakeshore East line would benefit from express services to-and-from Union Station.

So basically they will extend the exisiting Bramalea express train to start in Kitchener at the end of 2016 as speculated on here for awhile. CTC install is to be finished late this summer.

 

[reaperexpress]

So basically they will extend the exisiting Bramalea express train to start in Kitchener at the end of 2016 as speculated on here for awhile. CTC install is to be finished late this summer.

So now there will be an empty storage spot in Georgetown? That sounds ridiculous to me.

Also from that announcement is that the first focus for frequent service along the line is between Union and Bramalea, with all day service starting very soon. I hope/expect that routes 30 (Kitchener-Bramalea Express) and 33 (Guelph-Bramalea Express) will begin to operate all day to provide a far more efficient connection to the GTA from KW than the current Route 25 + Route 21 combo transferring at Square One. If you travel at a time when neither is operating any express service, it can take over 3 hours from KW to Union.

 

[royalrivers]

So now there will be an empty storage spot in Georgetown? That sounds ridiculous to me.

Also from that announcement is that the first focus for frequent service along the line is between Union and Bramalea, with all day service starting very soon. I hope/expect that routes 30 (Kitchener-Bramalea Express) and 33 (Guelph-Bramalea Express) will begin to operate all day to provide a far more efficient connection to the GTA from KW than the current Route 25 + Route 21 combo transferring at Square One. If you travel at a time when neither is operating any express service, it can take over 3 hours from KW to Union.

No there won't be one. Remember they are ADDING 2 trains in 2016. Which means there will still be a train to take that storage slot. And it says right on the news release there will be Kitchener to Bramalea then express to Toronto train service...so it makes sense and is not ridiculous - its called math.

 

[reaperexpress]

No there won't be one. Remember they are ADDING 2 trains in 2016. Which means there will still be a train to take that storage slot. And it says right on the news release there will be Kitchener to Bramalea then express to Toronto train service...so it makes sense and is not ridiculous - its called math.

So basically what you're saying is that a train currently being stored in Georgetown is not being extended to Kitchener (which is what you said in your last post), but rather two new express trains will be introduced in Kitchener and the trainset that currently operates express from Georgetown may operate a new local run instead. The latter is what I've been saying.

 

[royalrivers]

So basically what you're saying is that a train currently being stored in Georgetown is not being extended to Kitchener (which is what you said in your last post), but rather two new express trains will be introduced in Kitchener and the trainset that currently operates express from Georgetown may operate a new local run instead. The latter is what I've been saying.

Sigh. Really? THAT Picky over the wording? Clearly bit too much time on hands....

 

[mdrejhon]

Sigh. Really? THAT Picky over the wording? Clearly bit too much time on hands....

Remeber he studies and works in urban planning...

 

[crs1026]

When I look at

http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/d...TI-MODAL_TRANSIT_HUB_PROPOSED_PROCUREMENT.pdf

It looks like the new Kitchener station won't have much platform capacity.

I wonder if this plan synchs with the GO service plan at all. All we need is to see the planning for HSR, RER, and whatever else come to fruition and then find there isn't enough station space in Kitchener to accommodate it all.

- Paul

 

[mpd618]

It looks like the new Kitchener station won't have much platform capacity.

There is nothing that isn't up in the air about the new Kitchener multimodal station, and probably the uncertainty about intercity services is part of the reason for that.

 

[reaperexpress]

Sigh. Really? THAT Picky over the wording? Clearly bit too much time on hands....

I was not picking on your unclear wording, I was confused by it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

How the boom in technology jobs is transforming Toronto and Vancouver’s office markets

The two cities made it on a list CBRE calls its Tech Thirty, an analysis of the top 30 technology centres in North America that shows how tech workers have kept office markets humming.

“If you look at the tech job growth rate (in Canada) it is well above overall employment. The point is that tech employment is growing substantially faster than overall employment. It’s tech, all tech now,” said Ross Moore, director of research for CBRE’s operations in Canada. “We’ve got our fingers crossed.”

Moore said Toronto had the fifth most tech jobs of any city on the Tech 30 list while Vancouver came in at 20.

 

[ehlow]

How the boom in technology jobs is transforming Toronto and Vancouver’s office markets

To me it seems like the heart of the Toronto tech/startup world is Spadina between King & Queen (going east-west to University and Bathurst). Tech tends to go for high ceiling brick & beam offices in old warehouses with open concept and big windows, so that area is perfect.

 

[ehlow]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...t-a-real-solution-says-stephen-lake-1.3324308

Thalmic CEO seems to want to hire or retain more people who live in Toronto (as do other Waterloo tech companies I'd assume).

Is it even viable though? Say they cut commute time to 1.5 hour from Union. That plus the amount of time to get to the train station is still a really long commute.

With several growing tech companies getting to the > 100 employee mark in downtown Toronto, I'd think the talent that lives here would always choose a Toronto based job over a long commute to KW.

Speaking of Toronto tech offices near Spadina (the article above), start-up open house happened recently and some offices are breathtakingly beautiful. One recently IPO'd Canadian tech company in particular..

 

[nfitz]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...t-a-real-solution-says-stephen-lake-1.3324308

Thalmic CEO seems to want to hire or retain more people who live in Toronto (as do other Waterloo tech companies I'd assume).

Is it even viable though? Say they cut commute time to 1.5 hour from Union. That plus the amount of time to get to the train station is still a really long commute.

Wouldn't necessarily have to come from Union. Looking at the 1988 VIA Rail schedule, the morning train used to leave Brampton at 8:13 AM and arrive Kitchener at 8:57 AM.