King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[the_conestoga_guy]

If the "standard transit signals" you're referring to include horizontal bar for red (such as the ones on the Waterloo LRT), instead of a red circle, then they are specifically prohibited in HTA Regulation 626.

Red bar in Waterloo
View attachment 552591

It's literally rule number one in the traffic signal regulations:


The Waterloo signals don't need to conform to the HTA since they're only used by rail vehicles (so they can arguably be controlled under the street railways act rather than the highway traffic act). The King Street signals cannot be exempt because they also need to accommodate buses.

White vertical bars for "green" are allowed in the HTA - in addition to a literal green light per reg.626(1) - but in Toronto a white vertical bar has been defined to mean "left turn and right turn only, no through movement", which is exactly the opposite of what you need for streetcars travelling straight along King Street.

I have already explained this several times in this thread. Here is a post where I linked to several other posts where I explained the HTA and City issues with bar-style transit signals.



This is not true. As long as you enter the intersection legally (meaning that you crossed the stop line during green or yellow) you retain the legal right to take whatever time you need to clear the intersection, and all other traffic must yield to you until you have finished clearing. That's also what the red clearance interval is for, which I illustrated at 1:49 in this video:

We do have cameras that ticket drivers who violate the red light by entering the intersection after the light has turned red. That's what the City of Toronto's red light cameras do.

Some extra perspective from Waterloo Region, there are other intersections that have bus priority signals like here at King & Victoria. In this case, there's a dedicated bus queue jump lane in the far right lane (to the right of the Google Maps car in this case). The light will remain red in all directions, but the top of this signal has a vertical white stripe that illuminates to permit the bus to advance first and make a protected left turn from the right lane.
I don't doubt your HTA knowledge, but there's clearly precedent for exceptions if you know where to look. Maybe King St could use something similar?

Google Maps

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www.google.com

 

[reaperexpress]

View attachment 552659
Some extra perspective from Waterloo Region, there are other intersections that have bus priority signals like here at King & Victoria. In this case, there's a dedicated bus queue jump lane in the far right lane (to the right of the Google Maps car in this case). The light will remain red in all directions, but the top of this signal has a vertical white stripe that illuminates to permit the bus to advance first and make a protected left turn from the right lane.
I don't doubt your HTA knowledge, but there's clearly precedent for exceptions if you know where to look. Maybe King St could use something similar?

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[the_conestoga_guy]

View attachment 552697

Whoops! I should finish my coffee before trying to contribute. Happy to provide an extra example I guess

 

[GatorEG]

Transit signals being installed.

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Are combined transit and bicycle signals allowed under the HTA?

I'm assuming the main signal will always be red (except between 10 PM and 5 AM for taxis). If thats the case, I don't see how bikes could legally move straight through the intersection outside those times.

 

[reaperexpress]

Are combined transit and bicycle signals allowed under the HTA?

I'm assuming the main signal will always be red (except between 10 PM and 5 AM for taxis). If thats the case, I don't see how bikes could legally move straight through the intersection outside those times.

It sounds like they're just using ordinary red/yellow/green signals so yes bicycles and transit can be controlled by the same signal since both are vehicles. They just need to write "Transit & Bicycle Signal" on the sign.

Yes the main signal will need to turn green from 22:00 to 05:00 if taxis continue to be allowed to use King as a shortcut overnight

 

[Jonny5]

For those above wondering about the issues of the signage, the new ones have now been installed above the mini signals and they say simply "Transit and Authorised Vehicles Signal"

So it's a catch all sign that will actually allow the main light to stay red at all times of day with a separate sign indicating what is authorised and when to use these new mini signals.

 

[daptive]

Are the provincial traffic laws written in stone… I don’t get why we don’t make amendments to the law themselves instead of all these half-a*s loopholes that just add confusion.

 

[max]

Are the provincial traffic laws written in stone… I don’t get why we don’t make amendments to the law themselves instead of all these half-a*s loopholes that just add confusion.

What you propose requires a majority of the provincial legislature to be interested in solving the the issue with amending legislation.

 

[DSC]

King & Church this afternoon

 

[Jonny5]

Correction! It now appears we are getting the dumbest possible outcome. There are two sets of mini signals

 

[Jonny5]

King & Church this afternoon

We must have been there at the exact same moment.

 

[nfitz]

What you propose requires a majority of the provincial legislature to be interested in solving the the issue with amending legislation.

Regulations aren't passed through the legislature. They are simply passed by cabinet - or more often than not, rubber stamped by cabinet.

TTC and City of Toronto - and pretty much every regulated body, routinely submit proposed amendments to regulations, which typically get rubber stamped.

 

[torontologist]

Does this mean that red light cameras will be installed to catch violators? The Highway Traffic Act requires a red signal for them... seems like this clears the way for camera enforcement.

Then we'll really see some compliance.

 

[Steve X]

Does this mean that red light cameras will be installed to catch violators? The Highway Traffic Act requires a red signal for them... seems like this clears the way for camera enforcement.

Then we'll really see some compliance.

I hope so, these violators need to be prosecuted.

Just saw a someone run a red in the worst fashion this afternoon. There is a right turn signal at Davenport/Avenue with a queue lane for west to north movement allowing protected priority for cyclist. Not only did this idiot turn right on that red signal, he turn from the through lane and butted everyone in the queue lane.

This kind of action sets very bad examples and definitely warrants more automatic enforcement. I know some members might not support more red light cameras but you have to see all the shenanigans going on.

 

[Dr. Snoot]

King & Church this afternoon

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I honestly can’t believe this actually happened. Good on Chow and Council.

I think this will help. It’s one thing for people to drive through an intersection on a green traffic light. It’s another thing psychologically to do it when facing a big red light. I’d still support putting red light cameras at every intersection in Toronto.

What are these temporary platforms that are mentioned? I wonder why after years of pilot and then making it permanent we’re still talking about temporary measures.