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King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

The HTA regulations can be changed. Cabinet can do it with a stroke of a pen.
First of all, no, there's a pretty long process for HTA updates that involves consulting engineers and other practitioners and doing research. They don't just change the HTA on a whim.

But even so, the post was not asking for the HTA to be changed, it was saying "why is the City so stupid that they didn't do this obvious thing I just thought of".
I can tell you that the City absolutely did consider that type of transit signal layout that as part of the original pilot in 2017 and the City would have installed them already if they could.

It's just sad that some people are so arrogant that they think that the reason the design ends up being stupid is because the practitioners are morons, rather than that they face real-world constraints that are not self-evident on twitter.
 
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First of all, no, there's a pretty long process for HTA updates that involves consulting engineers and other practitioners and doing research. They don't just change the HTA on a whim.

But even so, the post was not asking for the HTA to be changed, it was saying "why is the City so stupid that they didn't do this obvious thing I just thought of".
I can tell you that the City absolutely did consider that type of transit signal layout that as part of the original pilot in 2017 and the City would have installed them already if they could.

It's just sad that some people are so arrogant that they think that the reason the design ends up being stupid is because the practitioners are morons, rather than that they face real-world constraints that are not self-evident on twitter.

For sure there are constraints and the guy had no idea what he was talking about. However, it does point to common sense things not being possible because of this huge beauracratic red tape, and these frustrations go way beyond just signs, it's part of what makes everyone feel government is no longer effective. The process for updating the HTA should take ~ 3 months, so that a government can identify a problem and solve it in a reasonable amount of time.
 
For sure there are constraints and the guy had no idea what he was talking about. However, it does point to common sense things not being possible because of this huge beauracratic red tape, and these frustrations go way beyond just signs, it's part of what makes everyone feel government is no longer effective. The process for updating the HTA should take ~ 3 months, so that a government can identify a problem and solve it in a reasonable amount of time.
Yes and I literally said that on the previous page of this thread. I even outlined the changes we should make to the HTA to enable more intuitive signal indications.
 
To be honest, with all the green lights they've added - it looks even more like that you can drive straight. Who could possibly process all that in the 1 second that the streetcar in front of you moves forward and you first see the sign.

I've made comments (in a response to MetroMan on how it could be better and very different on Twitter. Without actually doing anything more than adding paint (though some earlier signage would help).
 
To be honest, with all the green lights they've added - it looks even more like that you can drive straight. Who could possibly process all that in the 1 second that the streetcar in front of you moves forward and you first see the sign.

I don't know, I walked along King and observed how drivers are reacting and I didn't see one driver go straight through. I saw multiple drivers stopped at the red for multiple cycles, anticipating it to turn green for them to go straight through. I saw 2 cars sit at the red for a full 4 traffic cycles before a streetcar came up behind them and honked at them. I agree it could be done much better, but this is the first solution that seems to have stopped (at least for now) drivers from going straight through.
 
His design violates countless HTA regulations. Everything seems easy when you don't know what you're talking about.
Oh yes, it's not compliant ... but regulations can always be changed! :)

It's an example of worldwide best practice - rather than the "oh how terrible, we will never be able to fix this problem that no one else has ever had" mindset common in North American transit circles.
 
Drivers will always ignore signs or other lights if they think they can.

A week ago I had a lengthy wait for a bus on King at Spadina and watched as loads of WB vehicles simply turned left from a lane that didn't exist and/or went straight despite signage telling them not to. Later on that walk I watched a vehicle drive onto the streetcar-only tracks on Queens Quay. Eventually I came upon Richmond where a vehicle drove the wrong direction through multiple intersections. Drivers are crazy and live in their own worlds until you forcibly pull them from them. Whether that's cameras, barriers, or physical wardens at intersections. Signs and lights aren't enough and don't fully resolve these issues.
 

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