King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[DSCToronto]

Who would want to sit on the street backing traffic?

Those who prefer to people watch?

 

[TheKingEast]

https://twitter.com/BenSpurr/status/989625458277875712?s=19

Interesting analysis out of Ryerson that points to limitations of King streetcar pilot to improve transit in the core. https://t.co/iaID6qH0dH

According to the researchers, almost 30,000 residential units have been built within 400 m of King since 2010. The only change in service to accommodate that growth was the introduction of between 8 and 10 streetcars during peak periods.

"In other words, the TTC made room for between 860 to almost 1300 passengers to accommodate the creation of 30,000 residential units," the researchers say.

The way that's written seems to attribute the problem to the TTC, but it's a land use issue as much as a transit one. City allowed all that development without any real transit to serve it.

The researchers say there are 8,000 residential units under construction near the streetcar route, which means even with the pilot and attendant service improvements, the King streetcar will soon be over capacity again. That will mean crowded cars, longer trips and wait times.

The upshot of the researchers' argument would be that the pilot is a temporary fix at best, and in the long (or even near-term) King needs a higher mode of transit.

Lets just add more buses *rimshot*

 

[aquateam]

https://twitter.com/BenSpurr/status/989625458277875712?s=19

Interesting analysis out of Ryerson that points to limitations of King streetcar pilot to improve transit in the core. https://t.co/iaID6qH0dH

According to the researchers, almost 30,000 residential units have been built within 400 m of King since 2010. The only change in service to accommodate that growth was the introduction of between 8 and 10 streetcars during peak periods.

"In other words, the TTC made room for between 860 to almost 1300 passengers to accommodate the creation of 30,000 residential units," the researchers say.

The way that's written seems to attribute the problem to the TTC, but it's a land use issue as much as a transit one. City allowed all that development without any real transit to serve it.

That last sentence is really frustrating because it's selling the idea that the city needs to restrict development downtown. How much transit does King street have compared to Brampton or outer Scarborough? Most people who move to King street do it to be close to work and to destinations, so how would the average trip length compare to building somewhere else that is less dense? Most people walk or bike to work.

The problem isn't that the City "allowed" development, the problem is that they didn't improve their service since the 1990s.

The researchers say there are 8,000 residential units under construction near the streetcar route, which means even with the pilot and attendant service improvements, the King streetcar will soon be over capacity again. That will mean crowded cars, longer trips and wait times.

The upshot of the researchers' argument would be that the pilot is a temporary fix at best, and in the long (or even near-term) King needs a higher mode of transit.

Yes, the DRL should be on King.

 

[W. K. Lis]

...
The problem isn't that the City "allowed" development, the problem is that they didn't improve their service since the 1990s.

Yes, the DRL should be on King.

Currently, patrons are using the 504/514 instead of the 501/502/503 in the downtown because of the King Street Pilot. With the Relief Line, patrons from the east end would use it.

 

[JamesKoole]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ng-to-toronto-s-major-intersections-1.4643206

Tory said the city is planning to hire an unspecified number of traffic wardens to manage traffic at major intersections, especially during evening rush hours. The city will post job listings for the positions later this week and paid duty police officers will be deployed starting Monday until traffic wardens are on the job.​

Wow. They are actually going to finally do something about gridlock and congestion in the core.

 

[Avenue]

https://twitter.com/joe_cressy/status/991357015665577984

King Street Pilot continues do everything but transit priority.

 

[DSCToronto]

https://twitter.com/joe_cressy/status/991357015665577984

King Street Pilot continues do everything but transit priority.

Well, the transit HAS improved (a lot) and the plan has always been to use the former parking lanes for additional pedestrian space and things like patios and parklets.

 

[Leo_Chan]

https://twitter.com/joe_cressy/status/991357015665577984

King Street Pilot continues do everything but transit priority.

These wooden sidewalk extensions should have been built right when the pilot started. Even if the patios for seating aren't built yet, just having sidewalk extensions level to the existing sidewalk is much more effective and welcoming than just planners blocking off the lanes (some inexperienced bicyclist ride there [illegally]).

It's also crazy that signal priority hasn't been activated yet and enforcement of right-turn only is almost nonexistent. Last week I saw 3 cars that kept tailgating a streetcar (non-flexity) through Church, Yonge, and Bay, they had loud engines too.

 

[DSCToronto]

.... just having sidewalk extensions level to the existing sidewalk is much more effective and welcoming than just planners blocking off the lanes

Yes, the City has so many spare planners that they are using them for traffic control :->

 

[Leo_Chan]

Yes, the City has so many spare planners that they are using them for traffic control :->

Use them to build affordable housing.

 

[robmausser]

Well, the transit HAS improved (a lot) and the plan has always been to use the former parking lanes for additional pedestrian space and things like patios and parklets.

I take the streetcar along the transit mall to work every day and no it has not improved much.

There are less cars but for some reason the streetcars crawl along and a glacial pace, and the lights do not give any sort of transit priority. 9 out of 10 we stop at almost every light along the transit mall.

 

[Forgotten]

https://twitter.com/joe_cressy/status/991357015665577984

King Street Pilot continues do everything but transit priority.

Expanded private patios don't do anything to relieve the alleged lack of space that causes the alleged pedestrian congestion.

 

[steveintoronto]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ng-to-toronto-s-major-intersections-1.4643206

Tory said the city is planning to hire an unspecified number of traffic wardens to manage traffic at major intersections, especially during evening rush hours. The city will post job listings for the positions later this week and paid duty police officers will be deployed starting Monday until traffic wardens are on the job.​

Wow. They are actually going to finally do something about gridlock and congestion in the core.

I've become an ingrained cynic. Realize though, that the HTA offences have to be issued by a peace officer, a cop of some sort or other. Traffic wardens can issue only parking tickets and bylaw infraction notices.

I've just got back from down there, what a zoo. And drivers were just streaming through the intersections illegally.

But guess what! The power of the camera made a number of them have second thoughts. Just whipping out my cell phone was enough for many to decide to follow the law. Any claim of "they didn't know" is nonsense. They just don't want to get caught!

Here's one of the most common occurrences in rush-hour, and wardens can issue tickets for this, it is a bylaw offence: entering intersections with no hope of clearing it before the next cycle. Note that drivers were still piling into the intersection as light about to turn red, and traffic south not moving.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Expanded private patios don't do anything to relieve the alleged lack of space that causes the alleged pedestrian congestion.

What if the patios were built on the second floor of the sidewalk extensions? Then you can triple the public space without taking up valuable sidewalk space.

 

[Avenue]

Well, the transit HAS improved (a lot)

Everybody wants to be positive about the pilot for the sake of transit advocacy. But even in its improved form transit on King is still horribly slow for how high ridership that is and for how it's carrying some of the country's most productive work force to their jobs (it's not a junior school bus). Nobody wants to admit it, as declaring it a failure now won't help anything and I get that.

and the plan has always been to use the former parking lanes for additional pedestrian space and things like patios and parklets.

I've never said the original plan was good.