King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[W. K. Lis]

As expected from the Toronto Sun, at this link:

King St. pilot project should be short-turned: Biz

Businesses are asking for major changes to the King St. pilot project or they’ll be considering their options including legal action, says the head of the Ontario Restaurant Hotel and Motel Association.

ORHMA President and CEO Tony Elenis said his group has a meeting with Mayor John Tory this Friday where they’re hoping to hear the city will lift its restrictions on private vehicles after 7 p.m. and on weekends.

Measures taken by the city to attract customers back to King Street – including $5 off parking – have failed, he said.

“The business community is in an uproar: Everything from talks about protests in various creative ways, to legal action … anything is up for grabs,” Elenis said. “The only thing stopping the whole group moving forward is the …meeting with the mayor. That’s how crucial this meeting is.”

Frustrated that packed King streetcars could be held up by a single vehicle making a left turn, city council initiated a year-long pilot project — between Jarvis and Bathurst Sts. — which began Nov. 12.

Motorists can no longer travel that length of King Street, facing 24-7 mandatory right turns at every intersection.

Elenis said within days of the launch of the project, restaurants were reporting an immediate drop in customers during what should have been their busy pre-holiday season.

The situation has not improved, and an ORHMA survey shows year-over-year revenue down between 2% and 52% for its members, he said.

One restaurateur told him that he had to put an extra $70,000-$80,000 into his King St. restaurant to keep it afloat because it began losing money for the first time, Elenis said.

Another owner, who operates a popular “destination” restaurant in the King-Bathurst area, saw business shift to his other location, he said.

“I can tell you people are crying and frustrated and mad,” Elenis said.

The TTC says private vehicles are not banned from King, and access has been maintained to local parking lots, condos and businesses.

An analysis of King streetcar times shows commuters are now saving around four to six minutes.

Don Peat, a spokeperson for Tory, confirmed the mayor met with owners of King Street businesses last month and will again Friday.

Tory wants to hear directly from those affected by the pilot project and keep on top of any issues, said Don Peat, the mayor’s spokesman.

I'm guessing the record low temperatures had nothing to do with businesses here or elsewhere around Toronto.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Legal action? F*ck me, now I'm just laughing.

 

[lead82]

The businesses that are complaining are the ones digging their own graves. King needs more capacity and giving priority to transit is the only way forward. Their complaints are bring about the wrong noise. They are making it seem like the zombie apocalypse on King but ignore all the transit riders. How about offering a discount to TTC riders? How about doing am advertising blitz with the city. How about planning to use the new street space for heated patio for spring/summer/fall. Instead of complaining work with the city to make the Pilot a success. King is a transit destination now. Use it to your advantage or suffer the consequences.

 

[lead82]

Same businesses are arguing about minimum wages too. These changes are here to stay. Either your business can adapt or close
up shop.

 

[TransitBart]

I was down at the MEC this afternoon. The street itself is empty. Streetcars fly along the street. Saw nothing but Flexities over about 45mins. You can see from the photo looking east that I took that there is little activity. It is cold. It was a bad time to start. There can be no doubt that the traffic is not seasonally strong. I would reserve judgement about business. The proof will be when we see who is left after the winter. Any of us who has worked retail, know that winter can be brutal on walk-in traffic.

I would stand by the following statement for the time being. This pilot is not making business easier or better.

In retrospect - given the inertia in human behavior - I believe that this could have been marketed better and that a start - timed to coincide with the first warm Spring season weather would have been more practical and obviated a good deal of the kickback.

In another thread, I joked to another poster that he had never been shopping with my Dad. If you are with my Dad, you are on a hunt for a parking spot as close to where you are going as you can get. If my father is the typical customer here, we are in trouble.

BTW - the walk back to Spadina to grab the 510 had me cursing the cold. It's an easy block from Charlotte to Spadina. I was frozen when I reached the stop.

 

[lead82]

I find it interesting that only the University to Bathurst section of the street has the most impact. The stretch from University to Jarvis seems just as busy as usual.

I think starting in Winter was a mistake and the cold weather did not help. Winterlicious os coming up. I’m hoping the city does something along King with restaurants to participate. Where are all the locals who live in the area? The streets are usually packed with pedestrians.

 

[PinkLucy]

The streets are usually packed with pedestrians.

Not with this cold!

 

[TransitBart]

I find it interesting that only the University to Bathurst section of the street has the most impact. The stretch from University to Jarvis seems just as busy as usual.

What on earth does this mean under a photo of an empty street and then commenting "The streets are usually packed with pedestrians." below?

I think starting in Winter was a mistake and the cold weather did not help. Winterlicious os coming up. I’m hoping the city does something along King with restaurants to participate. Where are all the locals who live in the area? The streets are usually packed with pedestrians.

This was not fully thought through. All of this could have been prevented. As noble as some feel the project is.

 

[lead82]

What on earth does this mean under a photo of an empty street and then commenting "The streets are usually packed with pedestrians." below?

The photo is of King near theatre area. That area usually is busy with pedestrians. I work on King E and the area east of University looks as busy as it was before pilot.

This was not fully thought through. All of this could have been prevented. As noble as some feel the project is.

Agreed. Pilot should have started in the fall (September ) or in this Spring.

 

[nfitz]

I find it interesting that only the University to Bathurst section of the street has the most impact. The stretch from University to Jarvis seems just as busy as usual.

I disagree. Streetcar used to crawl from Victoria to University. I'd never have dreamed of not jumping off at King Street and taking the subway through St. Andrew up to St. George.

Now I might as well stay for the extra two stops on the streetcar. And I've done so a few times already!

St. Andrew is never as crazy as King, and it's about the same time, if not faster, given that the subway drops all the way down to Front and back up again. And less chance of being in subway, when it all comes grinding to a halt.

 

[nfitz]

Agreed. Pilot should have started in the fall (September ) or in this Spring.

Not in fall. Then all those who keep forgetting how much better traffic moves in July and August with no school and lots of people on vacation, blame the extra congestion on the pilot, when much if not all of it is attributable to the time of year, and other factors.

We saw that in spades with the Woodbine bike lanes, whose opening was about a week before Labour Day and the start of a full closure of both Coxwell, Queen East at Coxwell, traffic restrictions for construction on Eastern, and also ongoing on Gerrard Street East.

A month later when Coxwell and Queen reopened, most of the whining suddenly vanished, and you are left with a few Nimbys who'd whine about anything. The Fred Luk's of the world.

 

[TransitBart]

Not in fall. Then all those who keep forgetting how much better traffic moves in July and August with no school and lots of people on vacation, blame the extra congestion on the pilot, when much if not all of it is attributable to the time of year, and other factors.

We saw that in spades with the Woodbine bike lanes, whose opening was about a week before Labour Day and the start of a full closure of both Coxwell, Queen East at Coxwell, traffic restrictions for construction on Eastern, and also ongoing on Gerrard Street East.

A month later when Coxwell and Queen reopened, most of the whining suddenly vanished, and you are left with a few Nimbys who'd whine about anything. The Fred Luk's of the world.

I hate those bike lanes, but only because they make driving northbound on Woodbine like piloting a slalom course as the road weaves left and right. Shades of Go-Carting.

 

[nfitz]

I hate those bike lanes, but only because they make driving northbound on Woodbine like piloting a slalom course as the road weaves left and right. Shades of Go-Carting.

You complaining because the road is a bit bendy?!?

Sometimes, I don't think I'll never understand Canadians. Have you ever driven in Europe?

Not sure how this is different from Dundas, Wellsesley, Bloor ...

Until now, I figured most of those making that bizarre complaint, were frustrated because it made it more difficult for them to surf the Internet while they were driving.

 

[BMO]

Live in denial. We don't know for sure yet, but the indications are not good. What does it take to address a serious threat, falsely perceived or not?

Gotta love this forum. People will be yelling up and down the street when any data supports bike lanes or LRT, but the second any inkling of data suggests that *gasp* we may need to go back to drawing board on King Street regarding impacts to businesses, it's automatically assumed they're lying or the data is false.

There's different mechanisms that the city can propose to mitigate negative impacts on King. The parking discount is one, albeit unsustainable one IMO. I think maybe, if the cold is impacting the street so much because people can no longer park by the businesses, maybe heat lamps along the corridor or some sort of shelter from the elements along the corridor may help get more pedestrians to stick out that extra 2 or 3 minutes to walk to a business. Maybe the local BIA can work with the city on this. I don't understand why so many people assume that businesses on King Street losing money automatically means that the project will be cancelled. It may turn out that there's nothing that can feasibly be done to mitigate certain elements that have fundamentally changed because of the streetcar and that's OK. the corridor is evolving and will begin attractive the type of establishments that are more likely to thrive in a transit-oriented environment.

 

[TransitBart]

You complaining because the road is a bit bendy?!?

Sometimes, I don't think I'll never understand Canadians. Have you ever driven in Europe?

Not sure how this is different from Dundas, Wellsesley, Bloor ...

Until now, I figured most of those making that bizarre complaint, were frustrated because it made it more difficult for them to surf the Internet while they were driving.

Seriously LOL. This stretch seems more bendy than others.