King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[TOareaFan]

I wonder if dissatisfaction with KSP is going to nudge upward when people are at unsheltered farside stops as the weather becomes more inclement. I realize that the temp stops lack concrete pads to erect conventional shelters but find it difficult to accept that some sort of basic safe shelter can’t be erected on some or all of them. Worse still if the barrier isn’t technical but rather that Astral Media just don’t want to figure it out.

The lobby of 200 King West sure is crowded these days with people waiting in the warmth for streetcars. With the fancy couches and massive Christmas tree it really is the nicest streetcar stop in the system

Wonder how long before someone pays Quadreal to keep the escalators operating past 7 on weeknights and on weekends.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The shelters at the streetcar stops can't hold 70 people waiting for the arrival of the next streetcar. Maybe the businesses should invite them in with a Nextbus display over the door. Maybe they'll buy something while waiting.

Oh wait, it's forbidden. No stopovers allowed for those transferring (until August 2018, maybe). Only if you are a fresh rider.

 

[mdrejhon]

They should get creative with sponsored temp shelters at the stops.

Like sponsored temporary tiki hut or other inexpensive themed shelters (with roofs full length of new streetcar, fully open to streetcar side, only very few poles on sidewalk side, no poles on streetcar side). A few sturdy 4x4 stained anchor posts and appropriate framing, and make the temp shelters an attraction. Begin installing after snowplow season passed. Get businesses to sponsor the installation of these, in exchange for exclusive ads all summer long on that particular shelter.

May need to co-operate with Pattison/Ad-Astra and whatever ad vendors along the corridor, but it can't be difficult -- they're losing out now, so this is an "in" for the Pilot.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Retail business used to have awnings, canopy, and doorway enclaves. Provided both protection against rain, snow, summer heat, and also shelter for riders waiting for the next bus or streetcar.

Apparently, they look too "old-fashioned" for some.

 

[dowlingm]

They should get creative with sponsored temp shelters at the stops.

Like sponsored temporary tiki hut or other inexpensive themed shelters (with roofs full length of new streetcar, fully open to streetcar side, only very few poles on sidewalk side, no poles on streetcar side). A few sturdy 4x4 stained anchor posts and appropriate framing, and make the temp shelters an attraction. Begin installing after snowplow season passed. Get businesses to sponsor the installation of these, in exchange for exclusive ads all summer long on that particular shelter.

May need to co-operate with Pattison/Ad-Astra and whatever ad vendors along the corridor, but it can't be difficult -- they're losing out now, so this is an "in" for the Pilot.

what would the anchor posts be anchored to? Even if they pass Transportation’s safety requirements, Astral will not want to see a corporate name on street furniture if they aren’t getting a cut. At a time when there is affection for David Miller for bringing Toronto FC, well, he brought Astral a 20 year contract and rammed it through council (and stops like mine on Coxwell had elderly but functional shelters replaced with an ad slab with a narrow roof sticking out from the top)

 

[muller877]

I would be very interested in seeing ridership numbers for King now. With cars turning around faster capacity should be naturally higher; in addition they've added new cars to the route.

Ridership must have increased 30% on that route. If so, that's a very difficult growth rate to manage.

TTC should quickly change both the King and Queen routes. In the west the 501 should end at Sunnyside. Both the Roncey and Queensway cars should be running on King St. In the east 1/2 of all Queen St cars should be diverted onto King.

Will divert more people and streetcars onto King. Hopefully the additional speed will add capacity to the lines.

 

[blixtex]

I wonder if dissatisfaction with KSP is going to nudge upward when people are at unsheltered farside stops as the weather becomes more inclement. I realize that the temp stops lack concrete pads to erect conventional shelters but find it difficult to accept that some sort of basic safe shelter can’t be erected on some or all of them. Worse still if the barrier isn’t technical but rather that Astral Media just don’t want to figure it out.

You as a King Street rider are not allowed to criticize it, as it is traitorous to the cause. Don't focus on the wait or inconvenience of unsheltered waiting areas, that will pass once the glorious warmth of summer comes. Just provide feedback once you are actually on the streetcar and compare it to what it was like before the KSP.

 

[innsertnamehere]

the frequencies are so high on king that I find the wait to be inconsequential anyway. I rarely have to wait more than 1 or 2 traffic light cycles before a car shows up. The frequencies on king at rush hour right now are below 2 minutes, and the line has become hugely more reliable (less large gaps) with the pilot.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'll take a more conservative 75,000 per day by 2018.

But from what I hear from people, the King Streetcar is way more crowded since this project begun. One girl even suggesting to me that she is going to start driving because of how uncomfortably crowded it's gotten. I guess everyone has their threshold for what they'll consider acceptable."

"↑
A little anecdotal observation: I took the 504 from Spadina to a meeting near Parliament. I got there in about 10 minutes but the streetcar was packed the entire way. On the way back, I took the 501 on Queen to compare. It was a lot longer, almost half an hour stuck in traffic from about Yonge all the way to Spadina. The kicker though: the streetcar was nearly empty at around 3:30pm.

It’s pretty clear that people who took the 501 have migrated to the 504 since it’s like a downtown subway.

This is a good indication that the TTC should be shifting 501 capacity to deal with the new demand on King. Could they not create a new Queen/King hybrid route?"

Hopefully the more crowded King car will increase pressure to build the Relief Line West

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It's not staying in its current form, it'll be totally different by end of the pilot

-- Better transit priority system
-- More streetcars (they're adding them, one by one -- they will be finished adding streetcars by around springtim
-- More people support this project than oppose it.
-- There will be a pedestrian-amplification factor next summer with on-street patios and such, this will help make up for lost business.

There are mixed reviews but the adjustments are being made on the fly, and rather quickly from what I am seeing. I'm hoping they fix the transit priority.

Rough start aside, it's looking very likely that the trial goes permanent.

As long as Tory remains a vocal supporter (he is), it will be permanent.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

[...]
View attachment 129457

The TTC might do far better by using still cameras, as an interpretation of "Red Light Cameras"...since red lights *are* displayed on the streetcar.

Here's the fodder for a heated debate in the press and elsewhere:

View attachment 129458

The TTC is going to have to take a different tack and tact, not least by demanding what ION has for exception under the HTA (I'm still trying to find the legal basis for it, it has to exist).

The Province will be (rightly) concerned about video taping, albeit it's done on buses, subway stations....*GO trains* and used in courts of law.

Il Duce is left hanging on this one...perhaps until he can breathe no longer.

Any idea how long it would take to get legislative approval from the provincial government?

 

[LNahid2000]

Does the Bay Street clearway refer to the diamond lane on Bay between 7am and 7pm? How could that even be enforced by camera?

 

[TheKingEast]

the frequencies are so high on king that I find the wait to be inconsequential anyway. I rarely have to wait more than 1 or 2 traffic light cycles before a car shows up. The frequencies on king at rush hour right now are below 2 minutes, and the line has become hugely more reliable (less large gaps) with the pilot.

We have very different experiences.

 

[DSC]

We have very different experiences.

Personal exoeriebce is, maybe, interesting but one really wants to look at solid statistics. Some on Steve Munro now shows the bunching is much reduced but we do need more weeklms. Steve will have more as will TTC and the City.

 

[steveintoronto]

Any idea how long it would take to get legislative approval from the provincial government?

Legislative approval not necessary. Il Duce has the power himself, as the effective "Governor in Council". And that decision lasts for twelve years from the day of enactment. Mucho time for permanent revision of the HTA to take place.

Look under the "Pilot" section of the HTA, posted in this string a number of times.

Part xvi
pilot projects
Pilot projects
228 (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may by regulation authorize or establish a project for research into or the testing or evaluation of any matter governed by this Act or relevant to highway traffic. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08

It could be approved and enacted even without QP sitting...in a number of weeks.

You have to wonder why this avenue hasn't been explored, or seized upon by the Libs desperate to improve their polling numbers...There's been dead silence from QP on video recording of those passing stopped school buses too. That request is months old.

Addendum: I have to clarify a remark I made in what @TheTigerMaster posted:
"The TTC might do far better by using still cameras, as an interpretation of "Red Light Cameras"...since red lights *are* displayed on the streetcar."

The red lights displayed on the streetcar in fact don't meet the definition for "Red Light Camera". The legislation states "intersection" in the definition. None-the-less, there are options with still cameras the TTC can pursue...*even if taking a succession of stills from an on-board video cam*.

This is a job for a good solicitor/legal eagle to hash out.