King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[steveintoronto]

When Toronto has Copenhagen's climate, societal norms, geography and academic levels of the general population, it might then be apt to cycle through the winter, as I did in London many times (have only been in other European nations in the Summer):

CLIMATE: AVERAGE MONTHLY WEATHER IN Copenhagen, Denmark
Copenhagen experiences unstable and changing weather patterns in all four seasons, as well as temperatures about 5 degrees higher than average for its latitude worldwide. The main reason for this warmth is the Atlantic Gulf Stream. Precipitation is moderate throughout the year, with a small peak during June to August. Snowfall occurs mainly from late December until early March, but snow cover seldom lasts long. Rain during these months is as common as snow, and the average temperatures for the winter months is near the freezing point.

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Rainfall-Temperature-Sunshine,copenhagen,Denmark

Perhaps some cycle-warriors weren't aware of the massive number of vehicle accidents in Toronto yesterday? Once the temps go below freezing, and the snow hits, the risk factors change radically.

Did I mention the 180% sales tax on cars in Denmark perchance? Well Skagerrak Jack! But that is about to be relaxed...to 100%:

Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100%
By
Peter Levring
August 29, 2017, 9:08 AM EDT
Copenhagen’s reputation as a cyclists’ paradise isn’t just due to a lack of hills: Registration duties of up to 180 percent mean Denmark is one of the most expensive countries in which to buy a new car.

That may be about to change. Under proposals unveiled Tuesday, the tax rate is to be lowered dramatically -- to just 100 percent.

The initiative is part of efforts by Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen’s center-right government to expand the labor force by making a monthly salary more attractive. [...]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-29/soon-cars-in-denmark-will-only-be-taxed-at-100

And Copenhagen drivers are far better than Toronto ones, not to mention everything about Copenhagen transit infrastructure is pro-cycling:

[...]In order to meet the demand, DSB redesign the compartments on all their trains and created so-called Flex Zones with fold up seats and bike racks beneath each seat. They adjusted the seating on all trains, as seen in the graphic, above, and now every train has a capacity for 60 bicycles. [...]

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2016/11/massive-passenger-increase-after-bikes.html

This is their massive RER equivalent that Toronto can only dream and argue about.

The S-train network - with 2 Metro lines at bottom right.

It's pointless to think Toronto could ever match Danish, Dutch, and most of Europe's cycling infrastructure and accommodation. Toronto has enough of a challenge meeting other Cdn cities, let alone US ones.

By all means push cycling infrastructure, but stop the hysterical claims of being able to do what they do. Unless you want to move Toronto south, eliminate most of the present occupants, and start all over again.

We're stuck with Toronto mentality, and far better to aim for what is achievable than aim at the sky and miss.

 

[Oddpie]

Since we're all just putting in our two cents here (and we should not pretend to be speaking for anyone more than ourselves), I'd just like to say I had a lovely time biking on Davenport yesterday in the morning, with fenders, despite the unplowed bike lane. Cars were moving very slowly and considerately and as the unplowed lane had no tire tracks* it was not slippery, albeit I was going slower than normal (but that would be average Toronto cycling speed for others). I left 10 mins early and arrived at work 10 mins earlier than usual, without any dirty clothing or wet shoes (shoe covers), and it was really actually pleasant in the sunlight. Rush hour. Had I driven I would have been late.

Does this have anything to do with the King St topic, I don't know, but I'm just going with what the recent posts here are.

*there were multiple bike tire tracks which gave me some confidence

 

[Andy_in_Toronto]

The work is in full swing. Amazing how quickly and relatively cheap a entire street can be transformed to the better!

 

[TransitBart]

I’m a dough bodied 46 year old and manage to cycle from Cabbagetown to Union and back well enough.

But will you be doing this in January? Or is this palatable in the hottest days of the summer?

 

[TransitBart]

That is changeable, but I don't know if cities have used enough sensitivity to promote this change.

Folks in my neighbourhood have always walked to the subway and to go shopping on Bloor, even in the dead of winter, icy sidewalks and all. There is no logical reason why we would not start using our bikes for that same purpose. It is really no more exposure to the elements, nor (on the network of local backstreets) is it more risky. What might help is if the local merchants shovelled the areas around the bike racks, and if city snow plows didn't leave them buried when they plow the roads.

It's like calling your cat to come in the house. Yell, scream, run around and chase it, nothing works. Takes more patience and you have to make the cat *want* to come inside.

One of the things I have enjoyed about Jennifer Keesmaat's term as Chief Panner has been that she advocated very progressive ideas but didn't sound like she was forcing them on anyone or making judgements. Very unlike, say, David Miller's people who also wanted progress but made it clear that if you were reluctant, it was because you weren't as smart and progressive and deserved to have progress rammed down your throats. JK has made much more happen in a shorter timeframe, it's all how you sell it.

I don't expect to see many cyclists slogging up Huronario or along Derry Road in the slush, dodging transports and making left turns across six lanes of auto traffic. But that's because those roads aren't built with winter cycling in mind. Adjust it, and they will come.

- Paul

David Miller's people who also wanted progress but made it clear that if you were reluctant, it was because you weren't as smart and progressive and deserved to have progress rammed down your throats.

David Miller's administration talked down to people. I was offended too. I agree with the observation of the change of tone.

 

[TransitBart]

You shouldn't be so dismissive of the impact of weather. I am an avid cyclist and it saves me a lot of time when getting from point A to point B, but I generally retire my bike in the winter. The problem isn't so much temperature, since I can layer up for that. The problem is the loss of traction with icy/slushy roads, especially when many of the routes I would take involve unavoidable steep inclines/declines. Other concerns are 1) if I could park the bike when the usual posts are buried in snowbanks 2) the amount of salt/traction dirt that I would track indoors and 3) the impact of all the road salt on the bicycle. Generally this means switching to public transit in the winter, or just making fewer/shorter trips.

"Latitude and the general arrangement of countries and what it generally means about the weather"

Latitude and the "general arrangement of countries" is a very poor predictor of whether the climate favours cycling.

Amsterdam: 52.4 degrees North
View attachment 126716
Toronto: 43.6 degrees North

View attachment 126722

Vancouver: 49.3 degrees North

View attachment 126720

Montreal: 45.5 degrees North

View attachment 126718

But when it comes to mode share, warmer cities have no excuse. California, especially southern California, would be absolutely perfect for year-round cycling. And yet LA is choked with traffic and coated in highways.

Latitude is not the only variable for weather and temperature. Cities in Northwestern Europe are blessed by jet stream winds - UK, Ireland, Netherlands, southern Scandanavia. Oslo is not that cold. Europe does not have to contend with the epidemic of obese people that are not candidates for any mode which does not involve a vehicle. As someone else pointed out, cycling is not a replacement for proper public transit. Not that under certain circumstances, it won't be more frequently utilized.

 

[goleafsgo_chris]

The work is in full swing. Amazing how quickly and relatively cheap a entire street can be transformed to the better!

I was just down there on King.

What is concerning is that the signs are up (atleast at blue jays way and spadina) showing no driving straight through the intersection. And they are...being totally ignored by the drivers. Im assuming most drivers dont know the official start date is tomorrow haha. This is going to take some SERIOUS enforcement.

 

[MetroMan]

The signs are all uncovered. As expected, nobody is obeying them.

Video: https://twitter.com/metromanto/status/929447788294868992

 

[PinkLucy]

As much as I love a good cycling discussion, please keep it in the cycling-related threads. Thanks.

 

[Megaton327]

What is concerning is that the signs are up (atleast at blue jays way and spadina) showing no driving straight through the intersection. And they are...being totally ignored by the drivers.

The signs are all uncovered. As expected, nobody is obeying them.

I can confirm the same at King & Yonge having observed for 5 minutes while waiting for a streetcar earlier today. The signs are up and no more cars than usual were turning right, the vast majority were going straight as always.

This City really disappoints me, sometimes. We'll see if they diligently enforce it on a continuous basis along the entire length of the pilot but I'm not even 0.0001% inclined to expect that to happen.

 

[Megaton327]

On a side note, would it make sense to remove the reference to Queen from the thread title, at this point? Given that the King pilot is starting and should go on for about a year, it might make sense to keep this thread simply about the active setup on King. Just my 0.02

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I can confirm the same at King & Yonge having observed for 5 minutes while waiting for a streetcar earlier today. The signs are up and no more cars than usual were turning right, the vast majority were going straight as always.

This City really disappoints me, sometimes. We'll see if they diligently enforce it on a continuous basis along the entire length of the pilot but I'm not even 0.0001% inclined to expect that to happen.

Drivers (myself included) are airheads. A lot of them aren’t going to notice the new turning restriction signs, and when drivers see one car going through the intersection, they’re going to blindly follow. Nobody is checking every intersection they go through for new turning restrictions. This is going to require heavy handed informcent to change patterns. Those traffic wardens will be useful (if they roll out in time for the pilot).

 

[reaperexpress]

I think it's too early to judge compliance given that the pilot doesn't even start until tomorrow. Some of the drivers going straight through may be aware that the new rules aren't in effect until tomorrow, and then the rest of the drivers follow them (as @TheTigerMaster described). Starting tomorrow morning the police should be starting their education blitz, pulling over people and giving warnings. Plus, the streetcars will be stopping at the new far-side platforms, which completely blocks the way straight through intersections.

Then if we decide to make this the permanent situation, we'll need to install automated enforcement cameras to fine drivers who disobey the movement restrictions.

 

[TransitBart]

I think it’s absurd to be judging before something starts officially. Call it logic. Too much emotion and hands in the air over irrelevant conjecture.

 

[MetroMan]

Drivers (myself included) are airheads. A lot of them aren’t going to notice the new turning restriction signs, and when drivers see one car going through the intersection, they’re going to blindly follow. Nobody is checking every intersection they go through for new turning restrictions. This is going to require heavy handed informcent to change patterns. Those traffic wardens will be useful (if the roll out in time for the pilot).

This is why good design has to assume that drivers won't read signage. Signage should be there only as a confirmation of what intuition tells the driver to do.

Bad design: A sign prohibiting through traffic but having the path wide open ahead.
Good design: The path to go through the intersection is completely closed by a dead end and/or an extended median into the intersection forcing a right turn.

Bad design: dark yellow stripes that are barely visible during the day, let alone at night that indicate a streetcar exclusive zone but that cars can just drive through and even wait in.
Good design: harsh rumble strips or a raised island inside the exclusive streetcar lane at intersections that would make it immediately obvious to drivers that they can't drive there forcing them into the turning lane.

Bad design: a solid green light ahead, even though transit is the only one who can use it.
Good design: a transit labelled green light and a right turning green light. Drivers would never see a straight green.

The city had something close to this in the Alternating Loops option but went ahead and chose the least intuitive design that relies almost entirely on drivers' voluntary compliance.