Is the USA stupid?

[kEiThZ]

I think the Ameri-centric media amplifies our negative perceptions of the US. Having been all over the world, I can assure you that every country has its fair share of the ignorant. We talk about China and India. With the corruption in those countries, do you really think that the brightest minds are being harnessed? We talk about Europe, a place where work seems like a foreign idea with their 6 weeks of vacation, 37 hour work weeks, and dozen or so statutory holidays.

Even if the US has more than its fair share of the lot, this would not matter. Intellectual power is driven on the margins. Few countries can pump out Nobel prize winners like the US and fewer still can retain more than their fair share of such talent. That is what ensures US intellectual dominance.

That and a commitment to commerce unlike any other. I read somewhere that the US pumps out twice as many business grads per capita than Canada and more than any other nation on Earth. This is what ensures its economic dominance. As an engineer myself, I will say that what matters more is not how many engineers you have but how many smart managers you have running projects. Engineers are a dime a dozen in the world. Good management is rather rare. This is why good CEOs are rewarded beyond all belief. Yes in the current climate there are examples of spectacular management failures....but remember this...you rarely hear of the management successes.

It is this ability to attract talent and the ability to direct it in a raw capitalist form that will ensure US dominance for decades to come. There is no place like it on this planet, where a guy can start a company in his garage and have it become an Apple Computer or Microsoft. Or where two college students can write an internet search algorithm and turn that idea into Google Inc. Or a place where you can go from being a billionaire to being broke and back to being billionaire in a decade....Donald Trump. As long as the US retains a raw belief in capitalism and is able to offer that freedom to anyone with an idea it will remain the dominant power.

Are there a lot of stupid, ignorant Americans? Sure. But none of them are running Fortune 500 companies, driving industrial production, working in scientific labs, etc.

As Canadians we shouldn't be so smug either. The American system is the biggest threat to us, exactly because of its ability to draw our best and brightest away. Feeling superior is not going to ensure that they stay here. It's time for us to get off our high horse and ensure we can give our best the same opportunities in Canada.

 

[doady]

I think America just seems more stupid to us because it has more people. America has ten times the population, therefore it is ten times more stupid.

 

[Brandon716]

Per capita it IS more "stupid" than Canada and many other western nations. You can use the word ignorant in place of stupid, as stupid may have other connotations. There are plenty of surveys and data to prove that its more than words.

 

[kEiThZ]

Per capita it IS more "stupid" than Canada and many other western nations. You can use the word ignorant in place of stupid, as stupid may have other connotations. There are plenty of surveys and data to prove that its more than words.

Well even if it is (and I think this one of those cases of liar's figure and figures lie), why does it really matter? I'd think its rather great to be an American, to not have serious responsibility, but to live in a country which draws the best minds from around the world and uses that talent to maintain its power across the board (economic, political, military, cultural, etc.)

 

[Brandon716]

Well even if it is (and I think this one of those cases of liar's figure and figures lie), why does it really matter? I'd think its rather great to be an American, to not have serious responsibility, but to live in a country which draws the best minds from around the world and uses that talent to maintain its power across the board (economic, political, military, cultural, etc.)

The figures don't lie, the fact is per capita its true. There are more people in the US who detest science, disrespect intellectualism, and don't care about a lot of things other westerners care about.

The problem comes with the overall size of the US. Because the US has over 300 million residents (and a few million more of illegals), sure it has a larger intellectual community by raw numbers than probably Canada, France, and the UK combined.

That's what makes the situation in the United States so sad in a way. The people who have a budding interest in what makes the US good happen to be held back by a rather mob mentality of people who stick to religious fundamentalism and if its not that, its just people who are anti-intellectual in general. Every society in the world deals with this kind of stuff, but in the USA its out of proportion with the civilized world.

But since its so large and there's so much capital flowing around (intellectual capital and monetary capital), its something people just try to ignore.

Its when the population at large wants to impose things like a ban on stem cell research when things get rather dire, or when we start impeaching Presidents because of a personal sexual act like the Clinton-Lewinsky affair.

Oh, and the entire thing about invading Iraq without any evidence and cooking the books, all because the administration just had the "gut feeling" it was right. Feeling a war is right doesn't make it right. If you ask me we need to send the guts back to Texas and Wyoming and put some brains in Washington. McCain-Palin is another anti-intellectual team that just goes on feeling.

 

[kEiThZ]

^It would be an interesting exercise to see if US power (in various fields) has really declined over the last two decades, as the Christian right and US consumer materialism has come of age. I'd argue that other than the temporary blip of the Bush administration, that its not the case. Relative US power in numerous fields has grown, especially with the demise of its arch-nemesis, the Soviet Union.

Furthermore, I would argue that over the long run the Christian right will fizzle out. People are becoming less religious over time, and these days Democrat registration are outweighing Republican registrations 2:1. If not this presidency, then the next. I will suggest, that we are at the cusp of what is likely to be 2 or 3 decades of dominance by the US left. Hopefully, they won't squander the opportunity.

 

[adma]

Furthermore, I would argue that over the long run the Christian right will fizzle out. People are becoming less religious over time, and these days Democrat registration are outweighing Republican registrations 2:1.

Though counteracted by the natalism factor, i.e. the Xtian right families are reproducing more rapidly, so they're producing more religious pinheads to counteract the "people" becoming less religious over time...

 

[digi]

I'd think its rather great to be an American, to not have serious responsibility

I don't think acting like an immature child is all that great.

 

[Brandon716]

^It would be an interesting exercise to see if US power (in various fields) has really declined over the last two decades, as the Christian right and US consumer materialism has come of age. I'd argue that other than the temporary blip of the Bush administration, that its not the case. Relative US power in numerous fields has grown, especially with the demise of its arch-nemesis, the Soviet Union.

Furthermore, I would argue that over the long run the Christian right will fizzle out. People are becoming less religious over time, and these days Democrat registration are outweighing Republican registrations 2:1. If not this presidency, then the next. I will suggest, that we are at the cusp of what is likely to be 2 or 3 decades of dominance by the US left. Hopefully, they won't squander the opportunity.

Have you seen Democrats? Many Democrats are just as religious as their Republican counterparts. 2:1 registration means nothing on that issue.

 

[lordmandeep]

True a lot of the social liberals are Christians...

You know the type that like Bobby Kennedy, John Edwards and Jimmy Carter.

 

[kEiThZ]

Have you seen Democrats? Many Democrats are just as religious as their Republican counterparts. 2:1 registration means nothing on that issue.

But what was brought up here in the original post was largely the point that the rise of religiosity in the US is leading to a decline of intellectual power there. And the argument was that these views are largely reflected in the party that uses an elephant for a symbol. If that is the case, then the growing Democrat base should reverse the trend.

Though counteracted by the natalism factor, i.e. the Xtian right families are reproducing more rapidly, so they're producing more religious pinheads to counteract the "people" becoming less religious over time...

I would argue that there is no clear link between religiosity and intellectual power. For example, the Catholic Church sees no contradiction between the adam and eve story and Darwinian evolution. They also do not support Intelligent Design. So religious Catholics, for example should have no problem becoming biologists, anthropologists, physicists, etc. And what would explain the success then of numerous science and engineering practitioners of other faiths who are equally religious, if religiosity and intellectual prowess had an inverse relationship?

I don't think acting like an immature child is all that great.

You may not think it's great but it does not change the fact that most Americans don't have to do anything to ensure their nation remains a superpower, except for paying their taxes.

 

[km190103]

"Every country has a government it deserves."

If this last two-term presidency is any indication, the state of the country is... not good. The fact that McCain/Palin are neck-and-neck with Obama/Biden is even more disconcerting.

lol good point

 

[digi]

You may not think it's great but it does not change the fact that most Americans don't have to do anything to ensure their nation remains a superpower, except for paying their taxes.

Wow...wtf?

 

[Brian69]

Although it started with standardized test scores (in which poverty--of which there is a lot in America--comes into play) a lot of the "Is the USA stupid?" argument seems to have moved on to highlight the work of the present administration and possibility that McCain/Palin might be in next.

But I have to wonder if a question like this would have been asked back in the 90's while the USA was under the more "enlightened" Clinton Administration. And I wonder if it will be asked when--or if--Obama settles into the Oval Office and we see more intelligent policies emanating from the top and less criticism from down below.

 

[Tewder]

Actually, the US really is stupid. It gets beaten in standardized testing by every other developed country (and even a number of undeveloped ones). Anybody who thinks there is no issue when the US spends more on education than every other country, and scores worse in every category is just denying the obvious. No one is pretending, or even suggesting, that EVERY American is stupid. Only you are putting out that straw man. NASA and the Ivy League aren't the only things in the US, which on average under performs Slovenia. Care to suggest why it under performs a country like Estonia?

Your line of reasoning is flimsy, not to mention disingenuous. Everyone knows that the results of these international 'standardization' tests are problematic. There are all kinds of reasons that can lead to one group scoring better or worse on these things. That said, even a cursory search will show you that the US does well, even better, than some G8 nations in certain age groups and in certain testing areas. Your gross generalities prove little, except your own biases perhaps.

As for politics and the general dumbing down of American society, well aren't we all a little guilty of that? The simple fact is that we are more aware of American stupidity because of our insecure obsession with the USA and our eager importation/consumption of its pop culture and media which does a good job at displaying such stupidity for all to see. Americans I know who live here, however, and who are thereby routinely 'forced' to consume Canada's versions of these things are just as convinced that it is Canada that is the 'stupid' nation and not so much the USA. In other words, for all the cleverness of the 'mugging-to-the-homecrowd'-type party tricks of a Rick Mercer and for all the superior smugness of even the stupidest of backwoods hosers in general, if 'Slovenia' or Canada (or fill in any other bit player on the world stage) appears to you to be so intellectually superior it is more likely because nobody is really watching close enough to notice the stupidity available, nor really caring to.