JasonParis
Moderator
I would think the linens and such would therefore be moving. Despite the low ceilings, I can't imagine commuters going to one of the higher-level floors for their food. This isn't KaDeWe, nor are we Berlin.
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Skeezix
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They already have pretty extensive food offerings in the lower level - several food counters and a relatively large seating area. Not to mention the Tea Spot/Great Cooks near the appliances and the Timothy's Coffee outlet near the subway entrance (different than the one upstairs near Bay & Queen).
I assume the proposed food hall will be built in the existing food court-type space, although it may be larger than what is there now.
Skeezix
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I'm not so sure. Great Cooks on the eighth floor is absolutely PACKED all the time, and their take-out counter is usually quite busy. It doesn't mean that any restaurant would do well on upper floors, but there is a precedent for something doing extremely well.
What is not clear from the press announcements: will the newly renovated Arcadian Court be strictly an event-venue, or will it remain open to the public for lunch? Except for Christmas and the occasional Friday lunch hour, the place is usually deserted, which presumably is due to the mediocre food and the slow service. The new event and meeting space (the "Loft") will probably take the space currently occupied by the Bay Cafeteria -- a relatively busy spot, but one that could be put to better use. Will Great Cooks remain as is, or are they being squeezed out as part of this new deal with Compass/O&B?
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DTowner
Active Member
Oh THAT Timothy's! The one across from Old City Hall. Okay, that makes more sense and would be nice. I thought they were talking about the one in the basement in the linen section (which would've been horrible). And, yes, they already have a nice food area there.
adHominem
Senior Member
I'm really going to miss the City View Café. The food is... well, it's fine. But the view is lovely and it's become a favourite place of mine to have lunch.
FAC33
Active Member
I was just up there a couple of weeks ago, and wish I had discovered it earlier. The food is a decent deal, but the view is what makes it. I'll have to pay a visit or two before it goes away completely.
adma
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Skeezix
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I feel the same way. There aren't a lot of places downtown to get a grilled-cheese sandwich, a carton of milk and a nice view of old city hall for lunch.
adHominem
Senior Member
That's sad. That place looks awesome!
It sucks that so many interesting pockets of the city change in order to cater to the uninteresting desires of affluent people. I'm glad Toronto seems to be thriving - I've lived here since the mid-90s and the scale of recent development keeps surprising me, and I certainly wouldn't trade what we have now for the acres of parking lots of the 70s. But I do feel like we're losing things, bit by bit, that no one's really noticing. Maybe I'm just becoming sentimental in my dotage.
DTowner
Active Member
The thing is, though, Toronto isn't 'thriving'. Yes, there are more affluent people living here, but the gap between 'rich' and 'poor' is widening. So, posh eateries (sp?) and such will appeal to a very specific clientele that I don't think is large enough to sustain it. Plus, Toronto is very middle of the road when it comes to 'lifestyle' — the Targets (opening in a couple of years), H&Ms, GAPS and Old Navy's are the norm and the money-makers. Should be interesting to see if HBC survives its re-branding; Eaton's didnt'!
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gabe
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The price of a dinner there is probably the same price as a chai latte at the O&B cafe. Not many places left where you can get some good old fashion rice pudding and jello included with your meal.
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Tewder
Senior Member
I'm not sure I would agree. Independent retail still seems quite healthy in the city, from Kensington Market to the Distillery, and from Queen Street to Yonge Street, etc... and if it's true that more and more chains are creeping in it is probably because they were under-represented in Toronto to start with. Fortunately Toronto/GTA region are probably large enough and diverse enough to support retail in all of its forms, no?
CITY_LOVER
Active Member
I completely agree with DTowner. I have read several of his posts and I am with him on his perspective of Toronto's retail/fashion scene. Toronto is not necessarily thriving, and at best it's mid-market (with an emphasis on 'at best'). Look at how many Winners stores there are in the greater downtown area....like ten??? Even Scotia Plaza, the second largest office tower complex in Canada has a Winners (it used to Harry Rosen) at its base! That is very unimpressive.
The Eaton Centre's Bay and Sears are nothing to write home about (in that they are not upscale and do not reflect what others would expect of a key retail location like that). It's the same story with Yonge Street (south of Bloor) - it's quite low- to mid-market. The Bloor-Yorkville area is not that big either and has lost several unique upscale department stores in the last few decades (don't know all their names). The only one we've gained is, of course, Winners! Even the Bay at Yonge & Bloor looks quite downscale to me....once again, despite it being on Bloor Street and at the base of HBC's HQ! Only in Toronto....sigh! Oh, and is the Bloor Holt's even the largest in Canada anymore or have the Vancouver and Calgary stores beat it (in size)?
prosperegal
Senior Member
I completely agree with DTowner. I have read several of his posts and I am with him on his perspective of Toronto's retail/fashion scene. Toronto is not necessarily thriving, and at best it's mid-market (with an emphasis on 'at best'). Look at how many Winners stores there are in the greater downtown area....like ten??? Even Scotia Plaza, the second largest office tower complex in Canada has a Winners (it used to Harry Rosen) at its base! That is very unimpressive.
The Eaton Centre's Bay and Sears are nothing to write home about (in that they are not upscale and do not reflect what others would expect of a key retail location like that). It's the same story with Yonge Street (south of Bloor) - it's quite low- to mid-market. The Bloor-Yorkville area is not that big either and has lost several unique upscale department stores in the last few decades (don't know all their names). The only one we've gained is, of course, Winners! Even the Bay at Yonge & Bloor looks quite downscale to me....once again, despite it being on Bloor Street and at the base of HBC's HQ! Only in Toronto....sigh! Oh, and is the Bloor Holt's even the largest in Canada anymore or have the Vancouver and Calgary stores beat it (in size)?
Toronto also has 3 Holts stores + a Last Call up at Vaughan Mills. Vancouver and Calgary both only have one location.
As for Great Cooks, I won't be surprised if they move downstairs...
adma
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What's so bad about Winners? I'd say it brings things down to earth--like, if I were visitng NY/London/Paris, I'd find Winners-type retail reassuring...