How to solve homeless issue?

[taal]

But it's not sustainable, you're not going to have a festival everyday - so what does it really accomplish ? Sure the day of such festivals is great - but then folks who frequently visit the area and/or live there have to deal with it every other day.

 

[evandyk]

The news helicopter is up there again this morning. It doesn't seem they're doing anything to clear the encampment, though, there appears to be zero interest in making people leave if they don't do it voluntarily. Which has been their approach all along, but why send the cops and the trucks if it's just status quo?

 

[Admiral Beez]

But it's not sustainable, you're not going to have a festival everyday - so what does it really accomplish ?

Well said, and of course after every Cabbagetown Festival we quickly see the sketchiness come out of the shadows. As for what it accomplishes, IDK, perhaps it's like those Take Back the Night marches, where for one night women people feel empowered and safe. Of course the next night the creepiness and apprehension returns for women walking alone at night. It's a demonstration rather than a revolution.

 

[txlseries4]

The local councillor released a statement yesterday providing an update and explaining the process. It's too long to post in text or with screenshots, but here's a link: https://www.alejandrabravo.ca/statement_dufferingroveencampment

I’ve seen some social media posts from some individuals at the encampment, and there’s obviously agitation and even trauma based on past or other people’s experiences, like a mention of a former encampment resident who died after being housed. Staff captured on video seem to stay calm despite the tension.

Clearing the encampment a slow process for sure but I’d rather this than the forced and heavy handed evictions with 50+ police officers we saw in 2021.

 

[evandyk]

A pretty even handed look by the Globe, from someone who’s obviously on the same neighbourhood listserv as I am.

In Dufferin Grove, a big tent of compassion for homeless encampments begins to fray

Even self-professed progressives are losing patience in this Toronto park – and the debate about housing and compassion is not unique

www.theglobeandmail.com

And on twitter, Dan Seljak makes the good point that if there’s a bunch of bylaw officers just standing around in the park anyways, they should ticket the lawless riffraff who let their dogs run around off leash constantly in the park.

 

[txlseries4]

I walked through the park around noon and there were a couple news producers/camera operators, and a solidarity group listening to someone with a microphone and speaker. Various city staff are on site, as well as city corporate security, but the atmosphere seemed calm. What's going on doesn't stop the high school kids from playing basketball, volleyball, or just hanging out on the playground. Would be nice to see the park flourish like others nearby do

The people in the encampment have released a list of demands, some of which I imagine are outside the city's control or not realistic. One item (#4) is closer to reasonable to me. Given the list I'm not surprised to see little progress with the encampment dwindled down to the most resistant to leaving

DUFFERIN GROVE ENCAMPMENT DEMANDS

Timeline: Residents are demanding a 2 week timeline to receive written commitments from the city of Toronto to meet their demands (or by October 1st) These demands are:

1. ALL OF US OR NONE OF US! No resident will move out of the park until everyone has secured housing that works for them.
2. 1 bedroom units (800 square feet of livable space)
3. permanent CO-OP, TCHC or other RGI housing units based on the individual requirements
4. option to view multiple units and decide between units offered without being cleared.
5. no supportive housing with mandatory supports: not forced into non-consensual rules and restriction
6. 4 Plots of lands / green space lots to act as sanctuary spaces for unhoused people where they will NOT BE REMOVED and offered ongoing supports. Located in Toronto's core communities.
7. Redirect EO, shelters, carceral social services and security funding to affordable housing initiatives
8. building of quality, large and livable units that are well maintained to a higher standard of health and safety, including in-house pest control
9. massively increase the fine for housing developments that fail to meet minimum requirements for offering a percentage of affordable housing units and make those units permanent RGI units.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I walked through the park around noon and there were a couple news producers/camera operators, and a solidarity group listening to someone with a microphone and speaker. Various city staff are on site, as well as city corporate security, but the atmosphere seemed calm. What's going on doesn't stop the high school kids from playing basketball, volleyball, or just hanging out on the playground. Would be nice to see the park flourish like others nearby do

The people in the encampment have released a list of demands, some of which I imagine are outside the city's control or not realistic. One item (#4) is closer to reasonable to me. Given the list I'm not surprised to see little progress with the encampment dwindled down to the most resistant to leaving

DUFFERIN GROVE ENCAMPMENT DEMANDS

Timeline: Residents are demanding a 2 week timeline to receive written commitments from the city of Toronto to meet their demands (or by October 1st) These demands are:

1. ALL OF US OR NONE OF US! No resident will move out of the park until everyone has secured housing that works for them.
2. 1 bedroom units (800 square feet of livable space)
3. permanent CO-OP, TCHC or other RGI housing units based on the individual requirements
4. option to view multiple units and decide between units offered without being cleared.
5. no supportive housing with mandatory supports: not forced into non-consensual rules and restriction
6. 4 Plots of lands / green space lots to act as sanctuary spaces for unhoused people where they will NOT BE REMOVED and offered ongoing supports. Located in Toronto's core communities.
7. Redirect EO, shelters, carceral social services and security funding to affordable housing initiatives
8. building of quality, large and livable units that are well maintained to a higher standard of health and safety, including in-house pest control
9. massively increase the fine for housing developments that fail to meet minimum requirements for offering a percentage of affordable housing units and make those units permanent RGI units.

800 square feet of livable space for one person - in this town, with competing needs and massive waitlists? Like seriously, get real. Even private condo owners (nevermind regular renters) don't get that much space. What makes them so "special" to such an extent that they feel that they have priority over others?

And frankly "no rules" sounds like a bad mix with existing social housing residents.

AoD

 

[evandyk]

Supportive housing is typically smaller bachelor apartments. Even a one bedroom supported unit would almost never be 800sf or bigger. And there's fairly good reason for that.

 

[evandyk]

And frankly "no rules" sounds like a bad mix with existing social housing residents.

This is probably the demand of the person quoted in an article who said they had been offered a supportive housing unit, but preferred not to take it because they didn't want to be subject to "surveillance" by the City. They prefer living in the park.

 

[taal]

It's absolutely crazy to think of a list of demands is being given for what is a civil infraction (i.e. camping in a park) ...

The city needs to be really careful entertaining anything like that, think of the precedent that would set.


Also the demands are nonsensical as others have said (not all of them) but 800 square feet ... sure get in line, many people cannot afford anything like that.


I'm very much in favor if subsidized housing but this isn't the way ...

 

[afransen]

I walked through the park around noon and there were a couple news producers/camera operators, and a solidarity group listening to someone with a microphone and speaker. Various city staff are on site, as well as city corporate security, but the atmosphere seemed calm. What's going on doesn't stop the high school kids from playing basketball, volleyball, or just hanging out on the playground. Would be nice to see the park flourish like others nearby do

The people in the encampment have released a list of demands, some of which I imagine are outside the city's control or not realistic. One item (#4) is closer to reasonable to me. Given the list I'm not surprised to see little progress with the encampment dwindled down to the most resistant to leaving

DUFFERIN GROVE ENCAMPMENT DEMANDS

Timeline: Residents are demanding a 2 week timeline to receive written commitments from the city of Toronto to meet their demands (or by October 1st) These demands are:

1. ALL OF US OR NONE OF US! No resident will move out of the park until everyone has secured housing that works for them.
2. 1 bedroom units (800 square feet of livable space)
3. permanent CO-OP, TCHC or other RGI housing units based on the individual requirements
4. option to view multiple units and decide between units offered without being cleared.
5. no supportive housing with mandatory supports: not forced into non-consensual rules and restriction
6. 4 Plots of lands / green space lots to act as sanctuary spaces for unhoused people where they will NOT BE REMOVED and offered ongoing supports. Located in Toronto's core communities.
7. Redirect EO, shelters, carceral social services and security funding to affordable housing initiatives
8. building of quality, large and livable units that are well maintained to a higher standard of health and safety, including in-house pest control
9. massively increase the fine for housing developments that fail to meet minimum requirements for offering a percentage of affordable housing units and make those units permanent RGI units.

Are they in a position to make demands?

 

[evandyk]

Are they in a position to make demands?

Well, they're holding a park hostage, and the city has said it won't use the only leverage it has (making them leave). So the city keeps offering them housing options, they keep saying it doesn't meet their needs, and a year and a half passes with nothing accomplished.

 

[mcbg1]

Well, they're holding a park hostage, and the city has said it won't use the only leverage it has (making them leave). So the city keeps offering them housing options, they keep saying it doesn't meet their needs, and a year and a half passes with nothing accomplished.

Those demands are far from reasonable and those people are not acting in good faith so engaging with them is pointless. Time to send in the police and clear out the park by force.

 

[SubHuman]

... should be institutionalized if necessary...

When a person with severe dementia somehow gets out of a nursing home and wanders away, everyone seems to understand it's a bad situation and we need to find them, and not leave them out there.
If someone is so severely mentally incapable (and dangerous to themselves) that they wander onto subway tracks, why would anyone think it's okay to leave them out there to keep doing it?

From that article (and also this post by lenaitch), the main problem would seem to be they're detained and taken a hospital to be assessed under the Mental Health Act, and inexplicably often just quickly released -- "a person was said to have been apprehended three times under the Mental Health Act in a span of 24 hours, twice by TTC constables and once by Toronto cops... hospital keeps releasing them").

​

 

[txlseries4]

All encampments have been cleared this morning from Dufferin Grove. Just walked through and overheard someone telling a reporter people were on site just before 7am. Fences are up surrounding the small area where the tents were, and maybe 8 police officers on site throughout the park. Saw a video on social media of a city staff employee telling an encampment resident to pack up 2 bags and would return in 15 minutes.