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How to get Canada's oil to export markets?

Admiral Beez

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Norway has plans to outlaw motor vehicles that run on fossil fuels within the next decade.
Makes sense. The dealer is not supposed to consume the merchandise.

Norwegians will not abandon their export petroleum industry, and will thus still be responsible for the same or greater carbon pollution, regardless of their domestic petroleum consumption.
 
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SunriseChampion

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Ok, back from the match (finally, points! + welcome back, Ricketts!) and read the whole article. That article is just a great argument for why Alberta messed up, if anything, and not why the comparison with Norway is poor.

My initial assessment of the article was correct: used royalties to keep taxes low.

Where is the quality of life higher? I'm going to go ahead and say Norway and they're better off for the future and are able to kick oil to the curb without having serious financial problems, unlike Alberta where upon the price of oil dropping a couple of years ago all of a sudden had to go 15B$ in the hole to pay for their shitty planning and low taxes. Brilliant move. It's ok though, every man, woman, and child in Alberta has had enough extra money to buy a new phone twice a year.
 

Admiral Beez

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My initial assessment of the article was correct
Congratulations.

Returning to the topic at hand, how does Alberta get its oil to market?

If you think Alberta simply shouldn’t extract it's oil, I suggest this thread isn’t for you. Similarly, if you want to discuss how Alberta messed up it’s oil policy in the last, that’s a great topic for another thread.

In this thread I'm looking to how Alberta can crack the barriers to its trade.
 
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SunriseChampion

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Congratulations.
Cheers. I don't win much in life and even my football bets are small fry.

I'm not sure what else can be done other than the expansion of the Kinder Morgan pipeline and the building of Energy East. Keystone XL is just selling at the same old discount into the US which is not in the best interests of the Alberta industry. Railroading this particular material is a bad idea in that it is much more dodgy than pipelines. The pipelines are the only way to go, but now what? Energy East is deader than dead and Kinder Morgan is in some sort of weird stasis. Churchill is a no go.....the railroad has blown up and the "adults" can't get their shit sorted well enough to fix it and that would still leave railroading it in the picture.
I'm guessing the best thing for them to sell the product would be to upgrade it in-province and ship the refined products by various methods which would be safer in transportation. I'm not sure why that isn't on the table at all. It's all about getting out the raw product for some reason.
 

lenaitch

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I know absolutely nothing of the petroleum industry and really have no pearls of wisdom for the OP question but I tend to agree with the premise laid out by Mtown. Be it petroleum, raw logs or minerals, I've always felt we stifle economic development when we don't value-add our exports. It adds difficulty when dealing with fuel products due to regional differences and requirements but refiners crack to customer needs all over the world.
 

Admiral Beez

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Churchill is a no go.....the railroad has blown up and the "adults" can't get their shit sorted well enough to fix it and that would still leave railroading it in the picture.
That does bug me, especially since that VIA trip and a visit to Prince of Wales Fort is on my bucket list. I guess I’ll be riding this new road before Churchill is finally connected, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuvik-Tuktoyaktuk_Highway

It really is a BS position for Churchill. Here we have a city that has no road access, and relies on rail. Had this been a southern city, the government would be fixing the link proto. IMO, the Fed and Manitoba governments should seize and nationalize the line to Churchill. Get Alberta to help pay for the repair as part of railing or pipelining oil to Churchill.

It’s being considered, with of course those opposed dominating the news.

'Pretty scary business': Churchill in uproar over Alberta politician's proposal to purchase port
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-oil-port-of-churchill-callaway-1.4270157

And I have to think Canadian indigenous people are getting a little tired of being used by eco protesters whilst they languish in poverty.

Rift grows between Indigenous leaders and green activists
http://business.financialpost.com/feature/eco-colonialism-rift-grows-between-indigenous-leaders-and-green-activists
 
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SunriseChampion

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I know absolutely nothing of the petroleum industry and really have no pearls of wisdom for the OP question but I tend to agree with the premise laid out by Mtown. Be it petroleum, raw logs or minerals, I've always felt we stifle economic development when we don't value-add our exports. It adds difficulty when dealing with fuel products due to regional differences and requirements but refiners crack to customer needs all over the world.
I see it in my industry. We export raw zinc and aluminium, among others, and import refined building materials that are ten times as lucrative. It's a joke and we've been selling ourselves short for well over two centuries.
 

SunriseChampion

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It really is a BS position for Churchill. Here we have a city that has no road access, and relies on rail. Had this been a southern city, the government would be fixing the link proto. IMO, the Fed and Manitoba governments should seize and nationalize the line to Churchill. Get Alberta to help pay for the repair as part of railing or pipelining oil to Churchill.

It’s being considered, with of course those opposed dominating the news.
It's a joke the situation with that railroad. It's like watching a bunch of 12 year olds during a drama breakdown. My eyes roll and I'd like to pat everyone on the head and tell them that only their mum thinks they're special.

Is it safe to lay pipeline over permafrost given the changing climate?
 

BurlOak

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It's a joke the situation with that railroad. It's like watching a bunch of 12 year olds during a drama breakdown. My eyes roll and I'd like to pat everyone on the head and tell them that only their mum thinks they're special.

Is it safe to lay pipeline over permafrost given the changing climate?
Alaska Pipeline
 

Admiral Beez

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Is it safe to lay pipeline over permafrost given the changing climate?
Unless we have an engineer here that specializing in such things, it’s a moot question.

There are federal laws covering pipeline safety. There are already pipelines over permafrost in the Yukon and Alaska. I assume these are built, operated, safetied and inspected per the rules.
 

SunriseChampion

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I'm just saying that it seems to me to be a better idea to run the pipelines to Burnaby and St John than to Churchill.
 

Admiral Beez

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I'm just saying that it seems to me to be a better idea to run the pipelines to Burnaby and St John than to Churchill.
I agree with you there. Straight south to the USA makes sense too, but then we’re stuck with single market who’s already a competitor for petroleum dollars, with a protectionist president to boot.
 

SunriseChampion

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I agree with you there. Straight south to the USA makes sense too, but then we’re stuck with single market who’s already a competitor for petroleum dollars, with a protectionist president to boot.
Not quite, the product sells at a discount into the US and as it's already the most expensive source of oil in the world (or one of the most) it's uneconomical to sell it south.
 

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