Highway 401 Transit and Auto Tunnel

[innsertnamehere]

Would’ve been better if most industries went to Rail for their freight transport in Canada especially Ontario. What’s not even known is that the former USSR had higher Rail traffic than in the U.S. or other places, both being Passenger and Freight in the USSR.

because the USSR had no industrial capacity to produce trucks and cars. The USSR was producing only around 1.2 million cars in the 1970's.. Canada alone was producing more cars than the entire soviet union, and with 1/10th the population!

People and freight used trains as there was no other option.

Rail freight works best for long distances, and north america does that very well. It just can''t manage local and semi-local distribution, and it's much slower for time-sensitive deliveries.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

As much as I like the idea of double decking the 401. I cannot imagine the engineering logistics of threading the viaduct through some of the more complex interchanges along the highway. For example the 404/DVP interchange. The 401 goes under Don MIlls, 404/DVP, and Victoria park. The viaduct would need to be high enough to clear those roads (there certainly isn't enough space to also go under), while also allowing for ramps from the bridge to 404/DVP. We are probably talking about a bridge that is at least 10-15 m above the current 401 road deck. I can't imagine how the surrounding residents would feel about having this bridge deck looming over their homes. If the experience with some of the rail overpass constructions is any indication it won't be pretty.

*this is not to say that the tunnel will be easier. It may actually be tougher. But the decking project would be just as complex.

 

[just east of the creek]

There a number of long tunnels. Not too sure of multi-level, multi-lane ones under urban spaces.


It used to be thus, then road became cheaper and more flexible (and we lost a ton of actual manufacturing). The vast majority of rail freight these days is seacans from off-shore and bulk (petro, grain, plastic pellets, etc.).

It would be interesting for a railway to model container shipments to compete with longhaul trucking routes, using an express service, and modern handling technologies to enhance last mile deliveries. So Toronto West to Montreal, Moncton for instance as an example. This could be done but the railway inertia is considerable.

 

[afransen]

It would be interesting for a railway to model container shipments to compete with longhaul trucking routes, using an express service, and modern handling technologies to enhance last mile deliveries. So Toronto West to Montreal, Moncton for instance as an example. This could be done but the railway inertia is considerable.

Not sure what you mean. It sure sounds like you're describing intermodal shipping, which a well developed business for the railroads.

Railroads are increasingly offering services that compete with the speed of over the road trucking.

 

[lenaitch]

Not sure what you mean. It sure sounds like you're describing intermodal shipping, which a well developed business for the railroads.

Railroads are increasingly offering services that compete with the speed of over the road trucking.

It's not that competitive outside long distances, and Toronto-Montreal isn't. Acme Manufacturing orders a pickup of a seacan from its yard, which will go to an intermodal site x distance away, where a train will be assembled and depart for another intermodal yard where the can will be offloaded and delivered to its destination y distance away. I don't know what type of turnaround the railway could provide, but I doubt it would anywhere close to the probably eight hours or so that a truck could do it door-to-door.

Didn't one or both of the railroads try it with a Roadrailer service where the trailer went right onto the train, and couldn't make it work?

Intermodal trains now are a couple of kilometers long. That takes time to assemble. Railroads stopped building shorter trains because they are more costly to operate.

 

[Bojaxs]

It's not that competitive outside long distances, and Toronto-Montreal isn't. Acme Manufacturing orders a pickup of a seacan from its yard, which will go to an intermodal site x distance away, where a train will be assembled and depart for another intermodal yard where the can will be offloaded and delivered to its destination y distance away. I don't know what type of turnaround the railway could provide, but I doubt it would anywhere close to the probably eight hours or so that a truck could do it door-to-door.

If a Toronto based customer has a container they want to send to the ports in Montréal, they'll usually put it on rails instead of trucking it to Montréal. Majority of the cans we load on our Montreal bound trains are destined for the ports.

We get a lot of containers for the Montreal ports. We regularly send out trains to the Montreal ports that are fully loaded/ double stacked.

 

[CMQSD402F9011]

Intermodal trains now are a couple of kilometers long. That takes time to assemble. Railroads stopped building shorter trains because they are more costly to operate.

And should note that class 1 railroads are in that PSR mess in the 2020s. They want to cut costs and lay off people.

 

[afransen]

It's not that competitive outside long distances, and Toronto-Montreal isn't. Acme Manufacturing orders a pickup of a seacan from its yard, which will go to an intermodal site x distance away, where a train will be assembled and depart for another intermodal yard where the can will be offloaded and delivered to its destination y distance away. I don't know what type of turnaround the railway could provide, but I doubt it would anywhere close to the probably eight hours or so that a truck could do it door-to-door.

Didn't one or both of the railroads try it with a Roadrailer service where the trailer went right onto the train, and couldn't make it work?

Intermodal trains now are a couple of kilometers long. That takes time to assemble. Railroads stopped building shorter trains because they are more costly to operate.

Toronto to Montreal isn't really long distance, only about 500 km. I think you might need something like a self-assembling train. There are concepts but the technology is in its infancy. Intermodal for shipping to Atlantic or the West is a pretty dominant mode. That's why when both railroads were threatening simultaneous strikes that was getting very close to crisis levels for Canadian supply chains. Sh*t would get real pretty fast.

 

[lenaitch]

If a Toronto based customer has a container they want to send to the ports in Montréal, they'll usually put it on rails instead of trucking it to Montréal. Majority of the cans we load on our Montreal bound trains are destined for the ports.

We get a lot of containers for the Montreal ports. We regularly send out trains to the Montreal ports that are fully loaded/ double stacked.

But I wonder how much Toronto-originating overseas shipping there is. It's not like Toronto or the GTA has a ton of manufacturing anymore.

It seems the largest seacan-based international export that comes out of the GTA these days is stolen vehicles.

 

[crs1026]

But I wonder how much Toronto-originating overseas shipping there is. It's not like Toronto or the GTA has a ton of manufacturing anymore.

It seems the largest seacan-based international export that comes out of the GTA these days is stolen vehicles.

Lol.

Ontario's roads are clogged with trucks, but little of this is transferable to rail under current conditions.

Even traffic to the US in key sectors - pre-tariffs auto trade being a prime example - doesn't lend itself to rail intermodal. Trucks can head down the 401 and I-75 much more efficiently than building trainloads of containers or trailers that have to then be broken up and dispersed not that long after they reach the border.

- zpsul

 

[innsertnamehere]

The 401/I75 combo is especially important in "just in time manufacturing" which has been designed to cut costs. Even if rail can do it cheaper, manufacturers have determined it's actually cheaper to spend more on faster shipping of materials as needed instead of maintaining large stocks delivered by slower, cheaper freight.

Need more of a specific kind of bolt? One truck can do it a whole lot faster and more efficiently than a trainload of bolts, latches, components, fuel, lubricants, and a whole whack of other materials that then need to sit in an expensive on site warehouse until they are needed.

 

[just east of the creek]

Not sure what you mean. It sure sounds like you're describing intermodal shipping, which a well developed business for the railroads.

Railroads are increasingly offering services that compete with the speed of over the road trucking.

Yes I was, and I apologize for not being more specific. Although rail is making inroads there is much that could be done to be even more competitive, especially in a Toronto West to Montreal / Moncton corridor, as an example. There are larger shares of the freight moving along routes such as these that could be captured. And I have no time to go further now, I’ll try and catch up next week once I get back to home base.