High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

[dunkalunk]

Here's what I envision in terms of a conceptual future rail network:

Only rail lines with passenger service are shown.

Red lines are built to HSR standards
Black are electrified conventional lines
Grey are unelectrified

I imagine following classes of service could exist once the infrastructure is there:

Super-Express (No-Stop Direct HSR to directly compete with airlines)
Toronto - Montreal (via South Ottawa Bypass)
Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal - Quebec
Toronto - Buffalo - New York
Toronto - Windsor/Detroit - Chicago

Express (Downtown to Downtown)
Toronto - Pearson 427 - Kitchener Central - London Central - Windsor/Detroit
Toronto - Hamilton North - Niagara Falls (Can/USA) - Buffalo
Toronto - Oshawa - Kingston - Ottawa - Dorval - Montreal Gare Centrale

Limited (Stops Only at Major GO Transfer Nodes)
Toronto - Bloor - Pearson 427 - Bramalea - Guelph - Hespeler 401 - Cambridge Delta
Toronto - Sunnyside - Long Branch(?) - Port Credit - Aldershot - Hamilton Central/Hamilton North
Toronto - Square One
etc..

Intercity (Serving Medium Sized Cities)
Toronto - Pearson 427 - Brampton - Georgetown - Guelph - Kitchener
London - Woodstock - Brantford - Hamilton North - St Catharines - Niagara Falls (CAN)
etc...

Regional (GO-Type stop spacing with DMU/EMUs)
London - Fanshawe - St Mary's - Stratford - Shakespeare - New Hamburg - Ira Needles - Kitchener
London - Gore - Dorchester - Ingersoll - Woodstock - Bonds Corners - Paris - Brantford - Lynden - Copetown - Dundas - Hamilton North
Ira Needles - Kitchener - Riverbend - Breslau - Imperial North - Guelph - Imperial South - Blackbridge - Hespeler 401 - Preston - Cambridge Delta
etc...

Local
What happens when you give the UPX subway-type spacing (no, I'm not calling it Smart Track, or surface subways)

 

[rbt]

Figures -- we're Toronto, where Union-Pearson express has 3 stops.

Weston Station will disappear pretty quickly. End of 1st year budget will kill it in the name operational savings to keep UPX fares flat.

Bloor/Dundas West should be genuinely useful; at least I hope it stick around as I intend to use it a few times a year.

 

[mdrejhon]

Toronto - Montreal (via South Ottawa Bypass)
Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal - Quebec
Toronto - Buffalo - New York
Toronto - Windsor/Detroit - Chicago

Realistically, they won't do the Ottawa Bypass until long after the other routes. Ottawa is theoretically only a small diversion if they route it correctly (look at Google Maps), with lots of potential to make the service cost-effective. Also, ironically, the Empire Corridor (Buffalo-New York) had faster train service in the 1890s, than it does today.

 

[dunkalunk]

Realistically, they won't do the Ottawa Bypass until long after the other routes. Ottawa is theoretically only a small diversion if they route it correctly (look at Google Maps), with lots of potential to make the service cost-effective. Also, ironically, the Empire Corridor (Buffalo-New York) had faster train service in the 1890s, than it does today.

Trust me, I've looked at loads of maps. I'm actually mostly following the non-Kitchener alignment from from the Ecotrain Report.

When I talk about a South Ottawa Bypass, I'm talking about building a 13 km bypass of the access to the Ottawa VIA station along the existing rail corridor in South Ottawa. It's comparable taking the 401/427 through Toronto instead of the DVP/Gardiner. It's shorter, but you're still travelling through the city.

Unless the intention is to have all trains actually stop in Ottawa (which is assumed by the Ecotrain report), the rail line to the Ottawa VIA Station has a number of low speed curves that would significantly slow down Toronto-Montreal trips. When you factor in the travel time and layover, it would probably be around 20-30 mins. The Toronto-Montreal destination pair is probably the most important of any in Canada and the most likely HSR city pair to generate revenue; so much so that it could be worth building the Ottawa HSR station in South Keys to interchange with the O-Train Line instead of using the existing VIA station.

Something I forgot to mention in response to a previous comment. I don't see how building a Greenfield HSR alignment between Kitchener and London makes sense unless the plan is to anchor the west end of the service in Detroit.

 

[nfitz]

Weston Station will disappear pretty quickly. End of 1st year budget will kill it in the name operational savings to keep UPX fares flat.

What money is saved if UPX don't stop at Weston. There's no UPX staff. The station will still be open for GO. A little fuel perhaps in not having to accelerate out of the station ...

 

[rbt]

What money is saved if UPX don't stop at Weston

Directly? You don't need to shovel snow, clean, or do other basic work for the high-floor platforms at Weston. Sure, it's only a few thousand per year but I have very low expectations for UPX ridership from that station.

That said, I was actually thinking more in the form of running time. Saving 2 minutes in running time would allow an increase (5%?) in frequencies/capacity of the route on the same equipment/staff, I'm expecting the train to be somewhat overcrowded at times (major conferences). Also, cutting running time by a hair should make it slightly more attractive from other stations so revenue might actually go up.

 

[nfitz]

Directly? You don't need to shovel snow, clean, or do other basic work for the high-floor platforms at Weston. Sure, it's only a few thousand per year but I have very low expectations for UPX ridership from that station.

I'd assume they'd still pick up trash lying on the platform. I guess they could get rid of a garbage can. Though isn't about 90% of the platforms area for the regular GO services? I don't think an extra few square feet would make much difference.

That said, I was actually thinking more in the form of running time. Saving 2 minutes in running time would allow an increase (5%?) in frequencies/capacity of the route on the same equipment/staff, I'm expecting the train to be somewhat overcrowded at times (major conferences). Also, cutting running time by a hair should make it slightly more attractive from other stations so revenue might actually go up.

That's a good point. I do have a hard time believing that this station will generate much traffic, particularly once the GO service is running more frequently (and cheaply) to Bloor and Union.

 

[jcam]

And they'll be opening an UPX stop at Eglinton for the Mount Dennis mobility hub.

 

[mdrejhon]

And they'll be opening an UPX stop at Eglinton for the Mount Dennis mobility hub.

Coming to a street near you -- UPX stops are coming to King St, Queen Street, Bathurst, Dundas, St. Clair, Main Street, Sheppard Avenue, Piccadilly Circus Station, and a few other stations north that I've forgotten. It's only express compared to a streetcar.

(Oh, and probably one station on Olympus Mons on Mars. SpaceX got the launch contract to ship the UPX construction supplies today)

/sarcasm

 

[TOareaFan]

^to bring it out of the realm of humour.....what is more likely is that Weston remains as UPX stop until the Crosstown is complete.....as Nfit points out there really is no cost savings in closing it.

In 2020 it is pointed out that 5 years in Weston is virtually unused as a UPX stop and that a stop at Mt. D will likely be better used as it connects with a rapid transit line (like the well used Bloor and Union stops do) and to maintain the speed of the service there is a desire to keep the same number of stops so Mt. D will replace Weston.

 

[ehlow]

Stating the obvious here: the existing Lawrence & Weston UPX stops makes no sense, Eglinton & Weston UPX stop makes total sense. Both the UPX stop and GO station should be moved (and probably will).

Anyone along Eglinton: at Yonge & Eglinton, Leaside, Eg West area, further east in Scarborough, can take the fast Eglinton Crosstown to the UPX stop and transfer to get to the airport without going downtown first using the Eg & Weston UPX stop, and for those west of Laird it'll be a fully underground trip to the UPX station.

 

[MisterF]

The problem is that people are expecting UPX to be everything to everyone. The business/tourist crowd wants an express ride downtown while regular commuters want a reasonably cheap and fast commute that stops in their neighbourhood. Ultimately what's needed is an electrified (or DMU I guess) GO line to T1 to provide the latter while UPX handles the former. Something like what they have in Rome. Until a GO service like that exists, we'll be stuck with a hybrid that doesn't really satisfy anyone.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

That said, I was actually thinking more in the form of running time. Saving 2 minutes in running time would allow an increase (5%?) in frequencies/capacity of the route on the same equipment/staff, I'm expecting the train to be somewhat overcrowded at times (major conferences). Also, cutting running time by a hair should make it slightly more attractive from other stations so revenue might actually go up.

The frequencies/capacity of the route isn't limited by the number of stations and it wouldn't be unless they increase frequencies significantly. Its limited right now by the number of trainsets available and when/if they increase frequencies it will be limited by the dwell/turnaround time for occupying the single track station at Union more than anything else.

It is true that saving a few minutes by cutting of the stop would/should make it more attractive to riders however that gain will be negated when the Eglinton station is added. Whether Weston will be kept will depend entirely on the ridership.

 

[crs1026]

If the Crosstown were completed to the airport, there would be no particular need for UPX at Mount Dennis...people could carry on to/from the Airport on Crosstown, and save some money. And UPX could fulfil its originally conceived role....express downtown to airport. A stop around Liberty would have more utility to this vision than a stop closer to the airport.

The Mount Dennis stop is more critical for GO/RER/Smarttrack, as it enables transfers from city transit along the Eglinton corridor onto the Malton-Brampton-Guelph-KW corridor.

- Paul

 

[mdrejhon]

Trust me, I've looked at loads of maps. I'm actually mostly following the non-Kitchener alignment from

Aha, I thought you meant the 401 corridor that completely bypasses the Ottawa.

Yes, the South Ottawa Bypass makes a lot of sense for a Toronto-Montreal HSR since that's much cheaper than doing the 401 corridor too. Tho, Ottawa funding (our government, being the raison d'être of O-town existence) probably won't fund it... at first.