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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

When it is reported that a government (any government) puts "X billions of dollars" in a budget towards a specific project it does not magically make the money appear. They are just saying they plan to spend that much on that project over that time frame.

If the project is subsequently cancelled, it does not mean the money for that project is then sitting around with no purpose. It just means that, either, spending room has opened up elsewhere, or the government (or their replacement) will take on less debt (or lower income projections).

So when you ask what happened to that money.....the answer is "nothing, it did not really exist".

We have pre-funded projects via ear-marked trust accounts in the past (provincial funding of Spadina extension) but it is very rare, and you're right that HSR "funding" isn't close to that.

Typically only happens when the province runs an unexpectedly large surplus.
 
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^ I do wonder if the EA for HSR was included in the $11B and how much they've spent on the EA so far, and the revised EA which the Ford gov is now doing. Obviously it's way less than $11B. Maybe it was a separate line item.
 
^ I do wonder if the EA for HSR was included in the $11B and how much they've spent on the EA so far, and the revised EA which the Ford gov is now doing. Obviously it's way less than $11B. Maybe it was a separate line item.

The HSR EA is $15M funded by the Wynne government in 2017. I believe the work was tendered to a 3rd party to run it; most EAs are done that way (both government and private).

https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2017/5/bringing-high-speed-rail-to-the-toronto-windsor-corridor.html
 
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2110592082312174&id=671218429582887

1548871181255.png
 
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Proof?

I admit, between Montreal and Toronto at least makes some sense, but even that train is operating with major government subsidies and constructed with major capital cost.
Untrue. The core section of HSR between Toronto and Montreal has always been forecast to run at a profit, and the profits would even pay for the capital cost after, IIRC, 2+ decades. It would require a large government capital investment to get it built though, obviously.

The Toronto-London section was forecast in the most recent report to have a positive benefit-cost ratio, but only just. It didn't say what the BCR would be for just the Kitchener section, but that would no doubt be higher as it's the real driving force for that HSR line. The section to Windsor is much less justifiable.
 
High Speed West Coast:
Laura Kane · The Canadian Press · Posted: Feb 07, 2019 4:53 PM PT
[...]
High-speed rail link
Horgan also announced Thursday that B.C. will kick in another $300,000 to help fund a study of a potential high-speed transportation service linking B.C., Washington and Oregon, after contributing the same amount last year.
He said he envisions high-speed rail running from Seattle to B.C.'s Lower Mainland, with a terminus in Surrey that would connect to public transportation infrastructure to take riders to Vancouver's airport, the city's downtown core and the Fraser Valley.
Inslee added that a preliminary review has shown the rail link could generate 1.8 million riders in the first few years and Washington has contributed over $3 million to the project.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...nce-trans-mountain-every-way-it-can-1.5010708
 
More study
No worries, they are still not past the chasing-unicorns stage:

"Advocates have said the trains would be capable of running up to 400 km/h up and down the Cascadia coast, reducing travel times and congestion. Others have said it would help businesses operating on both sides of the border."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/high-speed-rail-vancouver-seattle-portland-1.4579100

"Trains are intended to travel up to 402 km/h, potentially connecting Vancouver and Seattle in just one hour, with stops at other communities in between."
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-...seattle-high-speed-rail-funding-february-2019
 
This article from www.cnn.com contains this pair of sentences.

"It feels like every other developed part of the world has invested in such trains (high speed rail) -- they're all over Europe and Asia. Yet there isn't any true high speed rail in all of North America. Not even Canada has one."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/16/politics/high-speed-trains-trump/index.html

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a system prior to the USA?
 
Wouldn't it be nice if we had a system prior to the USA?

I don't think we need to view it (and I'm not suggesting you meant this) as a one-upmanship sort of thing.

I do think we need to move in this direction; and the real disappointment for me has been the lack of strategic planning and incremental advancement.

A lot of rail infrastructure that exists today can be upgraded in a manner compatible with HSR without delivering HSR in the near future.

Assembling passenger rail/state-owned corridors, adding track capacity, slowly moving towards universal grade separation, reducing curves where possible where that would allow increased speeds with conventional rail, and accommodate HSR in the future.

The clearest benefits are Ottawa-Montreal and Toronto-KW, and we should start there while making strategic advances through out the higher volume (current or likely) rail network.

We keep stumbling because studies present all or nothing visions that are exceedingly pricey, and politicians kick the proverbial can down the road.

Really, in many respects, not so different from Toronto's need for more subways (over time) where instead of discussing building an extension in one, two or three station increments, its six stations all at once, at twice the price, and the timeline.

Breaking things down into manageable timelines and costs allows for progress towards a longer-term goal.

We need to do that so that we can better manage land use, travel times, environmental responsibility, etc.

GO Expansion/RER does do some of this (or may do some of this); but there are places where a fulsom future-proof is not being contemplated even now.

(ie. VIA should have a dedicated track in the LSE corridor built at the same time GO lays the 4th track for their operations)

That would be a cost-efficient move that builds towards an HSR future.
 
Untrue. The core section of HSR between Toronto and Montreal has always been forecast to run at a profit, and the profits would even pay for the capital cost after, IIRC, 2+ decades. It would require a large government capital investment to get it built though, obviously.

The Toronto-London section was forecast in the most recent report to have a positive benefit-cost ratio, but only just. It didn't say what the BCR would be for just the Kitchener section, but that would no doubt be higher as it's the real driving force for that HSR line. The section to Windsor is much less justifiable.

The thing I've never seen addressed is how much the Windsor section improves with an extension to Detroit connecting to Amtrak Chicago services.
 

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