Hamilton - Tim Horton's Field

[Red October]

Bob Young said they picked the worst of the 10 sites..
Bob Young is a douche.. I know for a fact it was the best site in regards to what is in the surrounding area.. the site itself, and transportation
That idiot needs to buy himself a new team and try to screw them up instead

 

[Rowe]

was that sarcastic?

God no. His site choice was horrible. The stadium will help bring DT Hamilton back to life. It helps no one but the owner having it out in the middle of nowhere.

That's like having the Roger's Centre or ACC in Richmond Hill.

I said 'Yup' because I knew the city was going to do the right thing... and they did.

 

[TOareaFan]

God no. His site choice was horrible. The stadium will help bring DT Hamilton back to life.

As I have stated before, I have not done enough research on the two sites to be able to definitively comment on which I prefer but your statement, surely, is dependant on there being a use for the stadium beyond the Pan Am games...no? How will an unused 15k seat stadium bring life to anywhere? If Bob Young moves the TiCats because he feels the West Harbour is a bad choice, does that not become a self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

[Team Me]

As I have stated before, I have not done enough research on the two sites to be able to definitively comment on which I prefer but your statement, surely, is dependant on there being a use for the stadium beyond the Pan Am games...no? How will an unused 15k seat stadium bring life to anywhere? If Bob Young moves the TiCats because he feels the West Harbour is a bad choice, does that not become a self-fulfilling prophecy?

I hope they bank on a CFL team playing in that stadium and build it accordingly. There is a loyal base of CFL fans in that city, and if Young moves the team, I would bet that another would be in place within a couple of years. Hopefully he renames the team wherever he takes them so the new potential owners can reclaim the Tiger Cats name.

I picture it like what happened to Cleveland and their NFL team. Art Modell moved the team (in a similar dispute about money and a stadium), but eventually the Browns returned to Cleveland with the name, uniform and history intact. It's the city and the fans that make the team, not the owner.

What I hope they don't do is build a 10,000 seat stadium that is not really suitable or expandable for anything.

 

[Dan416]

I'm happy that the councillors of Hamilton have stood up to a CFL owner and done the right thing. I'm not really invested in what happens in Hamilton, but it still pleases me that they chose a site that will help their downtown grow.

 

[jn_12]

Unfortunately study after study has shown that stadiums aren't the catalysts that you'd expect them to be (if anyone wants to do some academic reading and has access to academic journals just send me a PM and I'll give you the citations). But to start, go read anything by Rosentraub (Major League Losers, especially) or Robert Baade and Richard Dye. This idea that a stadium - that is used seasonally and for only 3 or 4 hours on the days that it is in use (adding up to essentially less than 1% of the entire year) - can be an economic driver is baseless. The only thing worse than expecting a stadium to act as a catalyst is to expect it to do so without a main tenant.

 

[TOareaFan]

I hope they bank on a CFL team playing in that stadium and build it accordingly. There is a loyal base of CFL fans in that city, and if Young moves the team, I would bet that another would be in place within a couple of years. Hopefully he renames the team wherever he takes them so the new potential owners can reclaim the Tiger Cats name.

I picture it like what happened to Cleveland and their NFL team. Art Modell moved the team (in a similar dispute about money and a stadium), but eventually the Browns returned to Cleveland with the name, uniform and history intact. It's the city and the fans that make the team, not the owner.

What I hope they don't do is build a 10,000 seat stadium that is not really suitable or expandable for anything.

Of course it could be like Baltimore....owner moves the team with the name to Indianapolis....years later the city realizes they were not being bluffed and helps new owners bring the sport back and they start all over again with the Ravens. Not sure which way it would go but I do believe Mr. Young owns the name Tiger Cats so if he wanted to take it with him I am sure he could.......aren't the people in Ottawa still trying to reclaim the roughies name.

Now.....who is in that long lineup of people waiting to buy an expansion CFL team for Hamilton? Come on, hands up? Thought so.

 

[catcher_of_cats]

Ottawa currently has their own team of potential owners that have exclusive rights for a certain time period, therefore no Cats in Ottawa. The only thing they are waiting on is their refurbished stadium that has no highway visibility, no sea of parking lots, and is not in the middle of nowhere like the Scotiabank Center.

 

[Red October]

Ottawa currently has their own team of potential owners that have exclusive rights for a certain time period, therefore no Cats in Ottawa. The only thing they are waiting on is their refurbished stadium that has no highway visibility, no sea of parking lots, and is not in the middle of nowhere like the Scotiabank Center.

Aren't they just renovating Lansdowne Park?

 

[DC83]

Bob Young said they picked the worst of the 10 sites..
Bob Young is a douche.. I know for a fact it was the best site in regards to what is in the surrounding area.. the site itself, and transportation
That idiot needs to buy himself a new team and try to screw them up instead

Bob Young is a great guy. He's just been ill-advised through this whole process.
His 'development team' (Osmingtion Inc) are those responsible for the disaster that is now Centre on Barton (old Centre Mall).

Take a look to see what happened to this inner-city mall:
The Centre on Barton


Now imagine a stadium built Big Box style... scary. The Tiger-Cats, and Osmingtion Inc, wanted 6000 parking spaces. City Staff revealed that would be 60 acres of land. Council almost shat themselves when they heard that.

So in any of the Tiger-Cats proposals, it would require that much land for their parking lot.. aka their Parking Revenue monopoly.
IMO, if a team owner doesn't have enough faith in his On-Field Product to bring in the revenues and relies on a massive parking lot, then he/she should sell the team.

 

[DC83]

Brad Clark Misses Stadium Vote

I found this cartoon in The Spec funny..

Ward 9 (East Mountain/Upper Stoney Creek) Clr Brad Clark.. former Harris Conservative MPP & Transport Minister Brad Clark.. missed Tuesday night's vote to go to a Michel Bublé concert at the ACC.
Not only did he miss a critical vote (which directly affects his Ward), but he sent an email to TheSpec.com while there saying, "Everyone in Toronto is laughing at Hamilton" re: West Harbour.

Source

 

[jn_12]

Bob Young is a great guy. He's just been ill-advised through this whole process.
His 'development team' (Osmingtion Inc) are those responsible for the disaster that is now Centre on Barton (old Centre Mall).

Take a look to see what happened to this inner-city mall:
The Centre on Barton


Now imagine a stadium built Big Box style... scary. The Tiger-Cats, and Osmingtion Inc, wanted 6000 parking spaces. City Staff revealed that would be 60 acres of land. Council almost shat themselves when they heard that.

So in any of the Tiger-Cats proposals, it would require that much land for their parking lot.. aka their Parking Revenue monopoly.
IMO, if a team owner doesn't have enough faith in his On-Field Product to bring in the revenues and relies on a massive parking lot, then he/she should sell the team.

I don't think you understand the economics of sport. Parking is a very significant source of revenue and in the case of this project, a full parking lot would give the team around $500,000-$700,000 annually (assuming $10/car/game). For a CFL team, that's a huge chunk of revenue and would account for 1/8th of their payroll. Considering NHL teams are clamouring for parking revenue (and that's a league where each team is 10 times larger than a CFL team), to say that a CFL team doesn't need parking revenue is absurd.

 

[Rowe]

"Everyone in Toronto is laughing at Hamilton" re: West Harbour.

Everyone was laughing at Hamilton.

 

[DC83]

City/TiCats Parking Revenue Share?

I don't think you understand the economics of sport. Parking is a very significant source of revenue and in the case of this project, a full parking lot would give the team around $500,000-$700,000 annually (assuming $10/car/game). For a CFL team, that's a huge chunk of revenue and would account for 1/8th of their payroll. Considering NHL teams are clamouring for parking revenue (and that's a league where each team is 10 times larger than a CFL team), to say that a CFL team doesn't need parking revenue is absurd.

Oh ya, I understand that, for sure. I never once doubted that parking was always crucial to his plans. To my understanding, the only field with a large number of parking spots is McMahon field? The majority of stadiums in Canada don't have 'significant' parking.

But 60 acres for parking, regardless of location, is rediculous! Not to mention that this is in prime light industrial land. That's an irresponsible waste of employment lands. There's actually a Canada Breads factory opening up right up the street from this proposed site.

One idea that has been floating around a lot is sharing City parking revenues from game days with the Cats. I see this as a good compromise; City splits parking revenues on game day, say, 60/40 with the TiCats taking the majority.

I may not be a sports economist, but I do know that a winning team also helps puts butts in the seats. The fact that the Cats have had such a terrible run under Young surely doesn't help his bottom line.
So if ~21,000 fans/game show up now (in an urban setting with no parking) while the team suffers, imagine how many more would show up if the team was making the playoffs year after year, with maybe a Grey Cup thrown in?

 

[DC83]

...I should also note that it was revealed through the Committee of the Whole meeting on Tuesday, that the TiCats $15Million offer was contingent on controling the land directly south of the proposed Stadium site (dubbed 'The Ear Lobe').

TiCats said they would likely use the land for overflow parking (as if 6000 spaces weren't enough).
There were some issues regarding that land, and that is why Young 'dropped out' of the debates before the actual vote.

So, Bob Young was the ultimate land speculator. He would have taken control of the land, sold it off to private developers, instantly making back his $15Million. He would then dump the team, and new suburban stadium, and cut his losses. As a businessman, he has every right to do so. But do try and manipulate the people of Hamilton using a 130+ year old institution (the Tiger Cats) is just plain wrong... IMO of course.