Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[mdrejhon]

Right now, Hamilton has nothing. Why not put something in.

As long as it's not the mid-pennisula free way. We've heard rumblings of redirecting part of the $1B towards new freeway ramps (one city councillor suggested that), or the mid-Niagara Pennisula freeway (like a LINC extension towards Niagara Falls, well south of 403). If it has to be BRT, we'll need to fight for something better than only road paint -- while simultaneously keeping the door open to LRT resurrection too.

Even if we settle for 5-10 years of a BRTINO upgrade (BRT-In-Name-Only, still an upgrade even it's a mere express bus route with token enhancements such as jump lane sections) -- one or two of the BLAST routes needs to be ultra-high-order like an Ottawa Transitway or the equivlaent to Eglinton Crosstown LRT Surface Section. The Hamilton LRT plan was actually as high-order as Crosstown Surface Section -- raised subway-like platforms, chained trains, and closure of minor intersections -- it was right-sized and right-priced for Hamilton -- that's what we were supposed to get, as described in the above post

 

[micheal_can]

As long as it's not the mid-pennisula free way. We've heard rumblings of redirecting part of the $1B towards new freeway ramps (one city councillor suggested that), or the mid-Niagara Pennisula freeway (like a LINC extension towards Niagara Falls, well south of 403). If it has to be BRT, we'll need to fight for something better than only road paint -- while simultaneously keeping the door open to LRT resurrection too.

Even if we settle for 5-10 years of a BRTINO upgrade (BRT-In-Name-Only, still an upgrade even it's a mere express bus route with token enhancements such as jump lane sections) -- one or two of the BLAST routes needs to be ultra-high-order like an Ottawa Transitway or the equivlaent to Eglinton Crosstown LRT Surface Section. The Hamilton LRT plan was actually as high-order as Crosstown Surface Section -- raised subway-like platforms, chained trains, and closure of minor intersections -- it was right-sized and right-priced for Hamilton -- that's what we were supposed to get, as described in the above post

Show it with ridership. Put express buses on those routes.Let them get packed. Then there is the evidence that higher order transit is needed.

 

[OneCity]

Good points. We can see how King/Main is the natural main line to connect all these interesting established communities, and how GO must also play a role, given the distances between some of these settlements, for example Dundas and Stoney Creek. I also agree that an important connection must be made between the lower and upper town. Greater connectivity will help reduce the polarization that concerns you. I’m just tired of seeing the continued abandonment of the downtown by the mountain residents. There are important similarities. Concession Road is a fine village. We need transit on every level: inter-city, between city neighbourhoods, and in the last mile along the community arteries.

'We need transit on every level: inter-city, between city neighborhoods, and in the last mile along the community arteries.'

We certainly need inter-city transit to build the large urban Centres for various growth and economic reasons, thats why we agree with LRT here as a long term investment. But its not real urgency in the smaller outer suburbs to add much local transit outside of their centrals connections. What the majority of these residents need over the long term is to ensure ease of access from cars into the larger urban Centre transit grid and GO and more importantly they need to see some form of investment equity as we attempt to rapidly grow Hamilton Centre.

Therefore what I really think needs to happen to increase support for such a major inter-City investment is to plan for simultaneous BRT(rapid bus) lines to be built from the smaller suburban Centres which should be planned with great detail to become smaller future growth nodes. Areas like Downtown Waterdown, DT Stoney creek, DT Ancaster (or Meadowlands), or even Lime ridge mall. In addition to the Waterfront or Airport BRT. The can easily become great places to live and grow in their own right alongside the larger densification of Downtown Hamilton. Extending to Eastgate square while, nice to have still does nothing to resolve the Greater Hamilton equity issues at hand

Otherwise its very much understandable why is so difficult for so many residents to support a large scale project that funnels future investment only towards a select area with little to no benefit so many Greater Hamilton residents. The issues with connectivity and equity could continue to hamper this project politically for some time as even if the LRT does somehow does get built one day, it wont change the political climate for the better until a detailed plan comes along to ensure these other area are not being neglected. There was far too much of a narrow lens here in scope.

 

[mdrejhon]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1228252818957643776

 

[sixrings]

I never understand why people who are so pro transit chose to live in such anti transit places. You must spend your entire life fighting the good fight for possibly your grand children to have a ride on your dream. More power to you but I would think that would make one bitter and ruin ones life. I too love transit. Knew my hometown of Scarborough was anti transit and pro car. I moved to midtown, walking distance from a subway. My place isn't perfect but everytime I see my home I think this is easily a top two decision of my life. How many people think that about their home? Hope you see better days in your quest for transit.

 

[WislaHD]

I never understand why people who are so pro transit chose to live in such anti transit places. You must spend your entire life fighting the good fight for possibly your grand children to have a ride on your dream. More power to you but I would think that would make one bitter and ruin ones life. I too love transit. Knew my hometown of Scarborough was anti transit and pro car. I moved to midtown, walking distance from a subway. My place isn't perfect but everytime I see my home I think this is easily a top two decision of my life. How many people think that about their home? Hope you see better days in your quest for transit.

Hamilton voted for transit municipally. Hamilton did not vote for the current Premier of Ontario. Perhaps this is why Hamilton is now being punished?

In any case, from a macro perspective I am finding this an increasingly moot point. Hamilton is ripe for development and growth, Hamilton is well connected to the GTA's employment area. Toronto has a housing crisis.
The region is expected to grow significantly in the coming decades. Hamilton will have to burden a lot of this growth, and that isn't really up for discussion as market forces will dictate so if government policy does not.

Investing in transit in Hamilton can ensure that this growth is done smartly and sustainably to build a stronger city and a stronger region.

 

[Streety McCarface]

I never understand why people who are so pro transit chose to live in such anti transit places. You must spend your entire life fighting the good fight for possibly your grand children to have a ride on your dream. More power to you but I would think that would make one bitter and ruin ones life. I too love transit. Knew my hometown of Scarborough was anti transit and pro car. I moved to midtown, walking distance from a subway. My place isn't perfect but everytime I see my home I think this is easily a top two decision of my life. How many people think that about their home? Hope you see better days in your quest for transit.

Because downtown, and even midtown, are insanely expensive. Higher order transit brings high cost housing, that's just the reality of things.
Because your job is in a particular area, and you are not in a position to change careers.
Because you have a family and living in an apartment/condo is not ideal (especially for your neighbors).

We need to increase rapid transit throughout the region to the point in which no matter where you live, you'll be served by rapid transit.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Hamilton voted for transit municipally. Hamilton did not vote for the current Premier of Ontario. Perhaps this is why Hamilton is now being punished?

In any case, from a macro perspective I am finding this an increasingly moot point. Hamilton is ripe for development and growth, Hamilton is well connected to the GTA's employment area. Toronto has a housing crisis.
The region is expected to grow significantly in the coming decades. Hamilton will have to burden a lot of this growth, and that isn't really up for discussion as market forces will dictate so if government policy does not.

Investing in transit in Hamilton can ensure that this growth is done smartly and sustainably to build a stronger city and a stronger region.

The latest population projections have the Hamilton CMA (Hamilton, Burlington, Grimsby) at 794,000 people, though we all know Burlington's unique roll of being both in the GTA and in Hamilton.. its western portion is very closely tied to Hamilton but the eastern portion is more part of the GTA. This means the CMA has been averaging 8,600 people a year in growth in the last 3 years.

 

[sixrings]

Because downtown, and even midtown, are insanely expensive. Higher order transit brings high cost housing, that's just the reality of things.
Because your job is in a particular area, and you are not in a position to change careers.
Because you have a family and living in an apartment/condo is not ideal (especially for your neighbors).

We need to increase rapid transit throughout the region to the point in which no matter where you live, you'll be served by rapid transit.

There were all sorts of Toronto homes beside subway stations which until recently were relatively affordable. People didn't want to live beside stations like main Street, Victoria park, Eglinton west. People also started buying houses in places like Brampton which are easily in the 2000-4000 sq foot range. To pretend that it's all about price isn't true. It's equally about people not wanting to live in small bungalows or semi detached houses which until recently our society thought was enough space. For instance I had X amount of money to buy my place. I easily could have afforded a house in my town of Scarborough with a 2 car garage, four bedrooms and a pool. Instead for the same amount of money I bought a 2 bedroom and office with no garage and only a spot for one car. But no regrets. All I'm saying is if transit is that important and commute times are that important then likely your biggest purchase should reflect the things you place an importance on.

 

[Streety McCarface]

There were all sorts of Toronto homes beside subway stations which until recently were relatively affordable. People didn't want to live beside stations like main Street, Victoria park, Eglinton west. People also started buying houses in places like Brampton which are easily in the 2000-4000 sq foot range. To pretend that it's all about price isn't true. It's equally about people not wanting to live in small bungalows or semi detached houses which until recently our society thought was enough space. For instance I had X amount of money to buy my place. I easily could have afforded a house in my town of Scarborough with a 2 car garage, four bedrooms and a pool. Instead for the same amount of money I bought a 2 bedroom and office with no garage and only a spot for one car. But no regrets. All I'm saying is if transit is that important and commute times are that important then likely your biggest purchase should reflect the things you place an importance on.

Not sure if you live next to any of those subway stations, but the stations you mentioned are insanely noisy due to all the buses near them and all the work that was being completed around them. Vibration is another concern. The sweet spot is 200-300 m from a subway station, not right next to it.

 

[sixrings]

Not sure if you live next to any of those subway stations, but the stations you mentioned are insanely noisy due to all the buses near them and all the work that was being completed around them. Vibration is another concern. The sweet spot is 200-300 m from a subway station, not right next to it.

I live within walking distance to Eglinton west. Anyways I guess I just feel the Toronto is too expensive statement not really sufficient. It's all how we spend our money. Some people would rather a huge house in the suburbs. Others for the same amount of money less space works in the city. People have less kids statistically so I have no idea why people want these mega homes other than the fact they like the bang for the buck. (for the record my place costs in the ballpark to most of my 905 friends) I'm actually ok with that despite me thinking it's terrible for the environment and I hate the traffic it causes. Either way I'm ok with it. But I know far too many people who could have afforded to live in smaller areas like mine moved to mc mansions and then every time I see them once a year they complain about traffic and how a subway to major Mackenzie or pickering or square one would magically solve their issues. Anyways transit is a good fight and a worthy cause. I just think it must take a toll on someone emotionally fighting something that in one's life may never happen.

 

[BurlOak]

Not sure if you live next to any of those subway stations, but the stations you mentioned are insanely noisy due to all the buses near them and all the work that was being completed around them. Vibration is another concern. The sweet spot is 200-300 m from a subway station, not right next to it.

Back in the 70's, we bought about 1.5 km away from 401. The houses right next to it were significantly cheaper. Within a decade, those who bought cheap complained against the noise and MTO installed noise wall. These were the metal noise walls that bounced the sound away - so we actually became louder while those close to 401 became quieter.
It's the age old rule - those who complain loudest get their way.

 

[gibsonm]

The most successful regions have the widest diversity of housing options, so that people can transition to different forms of housing that suit their needs at different stages of their lives, but also to meet the demands of very different kinds of people and lifestyles. Ideally, the new communities we build are complete communities, with centres that are dense enough to provide higher order transit, but with peripheries that transition to and provide a sense of the countryside, allowing access to raw nature and a local food supply. Within that range of densities, one can transition to a variety of different housing forms without having to leave the community. The level of density at the centre and periphery varies depending on whether such communities are closer to or farther from major cities. Closer to the city the nature may be on a smaller scale within a programmed park. The farmland may be small garden allotments. Complete communities provide population scales that justify walkable mixed use downtowns, substantial programmed parks that aren’t simply empty no-man’s-lands that no one wants to use.

Land is precious, so if you choose to own a large home on a large lot close to the city, you will pay a small fortune. That doesn’t mean we eliminate such forms of housing, especially for those who are willing to live farther out and accept longer commutes to have them.

Nevertheless, the days of endless sprawling low density developments built around the automobile are done for multiple reasons. We can’t afford to service such settlements with transportation infrastructure. Canada only has so much arable land and the most fertile parts are seeing the most development, which is unsustainable if we want food security and the natural aquifers we need to filter our water, sustain our ecosystems, and provide the natural escapes people need.

Planning that provides densities that justify rapid transit reduces emissions, speeds up commute times, and improves quality of life. In many ways it’s 19th century downtowns like Hamilton’s that are the model. They have the walkable transit-friendly villages with dense centres, flexible housing, workplaces, and retail, but they need enhancement.

 

[sixrings]

Back in the 70's, we bought about 1.5 km away from 401. The houses right next to it were significantly cheaper. Within a decade, those who bought cheap complained against the noise and MTO installed noise wall. These were the metal noise walls that bounced the sound away - so we actually became louder while those close to 401 became quieter.
It's the age old rule - those who complain loudest get their way.

Well it sounded like Hamilton had enough loud voices and yet their lrt is cancelled. Hard to be the loudest voice in the room when there are so many car lovers oin that city

 

[blaixx]

Didn't they move their CFL stadium plans from an urban area to a car Central area?

The new stadium was actually built right on top of the old one, in a residential area. I wouldn't call it "car central", there's no massive parking lot or anything. The proposed location would've been adjacent to a rail yard and walking distance to downtown. The proposal was prefered by the city (they went ahead and purchased the land) but the team did not like it from what I remember.