Bureaucromancer
Active Member
Black Bridge Road, Townline Road and New Bridge Structure
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Guelph-Cambridge Initial Business Case - Battery Multiple Units now proposed
- Thread starter mdrejhon
- Start date
www.cambridge.ca
reaperexpress
Senior Member
To be fair, the 56-minute number includes a transfer at Aberfoyle. If they ran a direct bus route it would probably be scheduled to take about 25-35 minutes.
The problem with a bus is of course that it would be a lot less predictable than the train due to potential traffic, which would require much longer scheduled transfer times to trains in Guelph to avoid missed connections. GO typically schedules buses to arrive 15 minutes before the train, but if the Cambridge-Guelph service is a train it could be scheduled with connections as tight as 5 minutes in Guelph.
Even if the train is approved, they should introduce a direct bus service in the interim to grow ridership along the corridor.
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robmausser
Senior Member
Also trains are cool af, so theres that disadvantage of a bus too.
Garuda
Active Member
Interesting. Great to see this happening. Although I'm going to miss this quirky crossing.Black Bridge Road, Townline Road and New Bridge Structure
headtailgrep
New Member
Hey fellow transit nerds. to Craig Johnson's post about my photo on railpictuers.ca - the discontinuance process for the Fergus which began December 2023 is for the 2.5 miles of track south of Eagle St in Cambridge.
Since that section of track is reluctantly (to my eyes) not included in the GO transit proposal it's surplus to CN's real estate needs.
The rest of the line is business as usual, about once to twice a week it's used to Galt and up to 4 times a week on the entire line.
What I am dismayed about is that part of the line includes both Galt and Preston which would really benefit from train stations - not only to aid in urban intensification, but to service multiple communities instead of one. The province and/or region seems stuck in a desire to bring a station to what's now a concrete jungle, an urban wasteland of shopping instead of putting a station in existing communities downtowns.
They could have had Galt, Preston, Hespeler added to the map and think of all the things that could land in these downtowns that badly need the rejuvenation. It's crazy how they don't seem to think of the past but instead try to re-invent new things like a new community.
I';m certain there will be tonnes of real estate speculation and intensification s near Pinebush and sure the LRT connection is their modus operendi, but why only one station when three would serve the people better.
Since that section of track is reluctantly (to my eyes) not included in the GO transit proposal it's surplus to CN's real estate needs.
The rest of the line is business as usual, about once to twice a week it's used to Galt and up to 4 times a week on the entire line.
What I am dismayed about is that part of the line includes both Galt and Preston which would really benefit from train stations - not only to aid in urban intensification, but to service multiple communities instead of one. The province and/or region seems stuck in a desire to bring a station to what's now a concrete jungle, an urban wasteland of shopping instead of putting a station in existing communities downtowns.
They could have had Galt, Preston, Hespeler added to the map and think of all the things that could land in these downtowns that badly need the rejuvenation. It's crazy how they don't seem to think of the past but instead try to re-invent new things like a new community.
I';m certain there will be tonnes of real estate speculation and intensification s near Pinebush and sure the LRT connection is their modus operendi, but why only one station when three would serve the people better.
north-of-anything
Active Member
I don't see a way that this will be up and running any time before iON buses connect the proposed station to downtown Preston (via Eagle St North) and Galt (via Hespeler Rd), but I do agree that there should be consideration for a Hespeler station at Guelph Avenue. That alone would also create a rapid transit connection over the 401 between Hespeler and the rest of Cambridge.
A BRT (and eventual LRT) connection through Cambridge that connects the whole city to Pinebush GO may be cheaper than acquiring station land in Preston and Galt, and especially any ROW south of Bishop Street.
Willybru21
Senior Member
Do you know where I could read the Metrolinx 2031 plan? I didn’t know one for 2031 existed.
rbt
Senior Member
This is referring to the 2008 Big Move document. The 2041 plan was released in 2017. We will probably get a 2051 plan in another 3 to 4 years.
Of course, just because it's in the plan in a specified priority order doesn't mean it'll happen that way. Parts of the 2017 document were substantially modified when PC's took power, and some lower scoring projects suddenly got top priority and funding.
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Willybru21
Senior Member
Oh I see, I thought the document you mentioned was a separate one from The Big Move.
Yeah I’m vaguely aware of how plans in these documents work, and just because it’s in the document doesn’t mean it’s a committed project.
Many of the proposed network expansions outlined in The Big Move plan haven’t happened, which shows a change in focus by Metrolinx, now prioritising investing in the existing network over expanding to places not currently served by GO:
chrisw
Active Member
Well, they closed the RTP already. I'm not sure how long these reports take. I'd thought they would want to complete it faster and before the election.
Also due to many decisions the 2041 plan is quite out of date.
Nov 30, 2023 Metrolinx Planning and Development quarterly report.
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dowlingm
Senior Member
An ION extension (after acquisition by the province) deviating just prior to reaching the mainline in Guelph would have added economy of scale to that system and served Guelph rather than being an isolated shuttle intended to shovel commuters at the GO train. It wouldn’t even have foreclosed freight service, given ION has not.
Since (reluctant sigh) this seems to far along to stop now, then it would at least be good to see this as part of a broader fleet acquisition to expand MTO owned heavy rail reach while close enough to have parts and expertise near at hand, rather than one of the collection of mini MU fleets OC Transpo has used/will use on Line 2/4.
With OBRY shuttered one of the obvious candidates (Orangeville-direct curve-Brampton GO) is gone. Maybe a Barrie shuttle on the BCRY? Another possibility would be a full replacement of UPX with these vehicles, selling the existing fleet to a high platform operation, such as join their Sonoma-Marin CA siblings, or to replace the mix of RDCs and Colorado Railcar in Portland OR.
Since (reluctant sigh) this seems to far along to stop now, then it would at least be good to see this as part of a broader fleet acquisition to expand MTO owned heavy rail reach while close enough to have parts and expertise near at hand, rather than one of the collection of mini MU fleets OC Transpo has used/will use on Line 2/4.
With OBRY shuttered one of the obvious candidates (Orangeville-direct curve-Brampton GO) is gone. Maybe a Barrie shuttle on the BCRY? Another possibility would be a full replacement of UPX with these vehicles, selling the existing fleet to a high platform operation, such as join their Sonoma-Marin CA siblings, or to replace the mix of RDCs and Colorado Railcar in Portland OR.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
I really do like the concept of this being more Waterloo focused than a GO operation... even as a mainline shuttle I'd be inclined to think it ought to be branded as Ion line 2... HOWEVER, thats a big ask inter municipal cooperation being what it is and Metrolinx such a powerful way of sidestepping the issue.
In any case, while I would like to see even a GO version of this operate as a tram train on the Galt end I'm a lot less convinced in Guelph. The only path that makes any sense to me would be Stone Road and Gordon Street:
It's got some appeal insofar as it hits major destinations, but thats a lot of new track compared some extra capacity on an already multi track corridor. It's also going to have significant running time on a line that people already question the attractiveness of for long distance passengers and eliminates any possibility of branching (as much as I'm inclined to think branching doesn't make much sense here keeping the possibility of a few through trains daily wouldn't have a lot of cost if it were built to main line standards). Finally, I'd suggest that that local service attractiveness of the tram train option above would be met almost as well with a light BRT connecting to a Guelph West station.
At the end of the day I think the Region's approach to keeping the initial business case as simple as possible is exactly correct. Anything that raises costs or introduces regulatory risk is a threat to the project as a whole. IMO this should be viewed first and foremost in the same kind of light as the O-Train pilot with every intention of refinement once the general viability of the service is demonstrated.
dowlingm
Senior Member
I take your point - my concern is that a BEMU shuttle into a station which appears to be a two through track only arrangement seems to create pathing complexity for limited benefit. If the shuttle had its own track or even a stub platform to get out of the way, it would be the obvious choice. But Guelph Central / GO is hemmed in by a curve, a bridge, and adjoining buildings, some of them of significant heritage value. No easy way to get to the Guelph Junction track either.
Willybru21
Senior Member
A full replacement of the UP Express fleet is planned with electrification, there are plans for the service to be heavily integrated into the GO network
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
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A third full track is a problem sure, but as much as the work to date has lacked this level of design there IS explicit intent for a third track and it doesn’t look like the issues are that complex if you accept track sharing between the station and junction and build platform three as a partial length stub track on the south side of the station.