afransen
Senior Member
I'm not sure how much more we need fares to be discounted. We need better transit, not cheaper transit.
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GTHA Transit Fare Integration
- Thread starter RedRocket191
- Start date
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Yes, you need better transit but part of better transit is accessibility and for many lower-income Torontonians, GO is a luxury they simply can't afford. If everyone is paying for it thru their taxes, then everyone should enjoy the benefits of it.
Also, by having GO are just part of the standard transit fare, operational costs can be reduced on the regular bus routes. Outside of local trips, most people travelling are going to a subway station. This is why so many routes start/terminate at subway stations and then head back to where they originated. If GO was an option for everyone many of those riders would go to the nearest GO station which maybe much closer than the local subway one especially in Toronto where the subway system is rather small. This means much shorter bus trips so that 19km bus ride is now, for example, only 5 km reducing operation costs and/or an ability to increase frequency.
Also, by having GO are just part of the standard transit fare, operational costs can be reduced on the regular bus routes. Outside of local trips, most people travelling are going to a subway station. This is why so many routes start/terminate at subway stations and then head back to where they originated. If GO was an option for everyone many of those riders would go to the nearest GO station which maybe much closer than the local subway one especially in Toronto where the subway system is rather small. This means much shorter bus trips so that 19km bus ride is now, for example, only 5 km reducing operation costs and/or an ability to increase frequency.
afransen
Senior Member
That sounds like a great idea, but GO can't support that additional demand as yet. Maybe this can be re-evaluated when GO Expansion actually starts to deliver meaningful capacity increase. Goosing demand at significant cost for services that are already operating at capacity doesn't make much sense. Better to focus that funding on increasing capacity. Some have suggested that the slow pace of GO Expansion is at least in part due to funding envelope (nevermind Metrolinx incompetence).
Northern Light
Superstar
Ontario is cracking down on fare evasion on GO Transit. Here are the new steeper fines being proposed
The Ontario government says it is eyeing a raft of transit changes that could include harmonized fare prices across the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area and improved services across municipal boundaries.
www.cp24.com
Key bits:
This broadly aligns with what I have been saying in this thread, and elsewhere, except is so far as I was originally given to understand the first tranche of changes would come this month, which is evidently not the case.
I expect you'll see local harmonization measures before any dramatic lowering of GO fares, as GO is not yet in a position to handle a massive spike in ridership. I think we'll see something that looks a lot like the BoT proposal eventually, with some tweaks.
chrisw
Active Member
GTHA transit unions call on Ford government to halt expansion of fare integration program
Local transit unions in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area are calling on the Doug Ford government not to push forward with its plan to harmonize fares across the region, saying they have serious concerns about the move.
www.ctvnews.ca
Some excerpts
Local transit unions in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area are calling on the Doug Ford government not to push forward with its plan to harmonize fares across the region, saying they have serious concerns about the move.
Officials have said there have been early discussions about what the new fare structure might look like, including the possibility of a zoned system in which riders might pay based on how far they travel, rather than a single flat fare.
ATU and its locals called Bill 98 an “unprecedented provincial takeover of municipal transit, with no enforceable protections for service levels, fare revenue, or worker rights.”
In the letter, the unions pointed out that at the TTC, 24 cross-boundary corridors covering 50 routes could be handed to outside operators, without service legal agreements or accountability to the Toronto City Council, which could lead to contracting out work performed by ATU members for over a century.
The unions also claimed that transit agencies in Brampton, Hamilton and Mississauga are losing riders and revenue under One Fare, and Bill 98 would accelerate the trend. [
]The unions are also asking that the province restore the TTC-GO co-fare, which was cancelled in 2019. The program provided riders with a $1.50 discount when transferring between GO and TTC. The unions argue that the co-fare was a “proven and effective regional fare integration tool.”
“If the province were serious about making transit work across the region, restoring the TTC-GO co-fare would be the clear and immediate first step.” [
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Northern Light
Superstar
GTHA transit unions call on Ford government to halt expansion of fare integration program
Local transit unions in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area are calling on the Doug Ford government not to push forward with its plan to harmonize fares across the region, saying they have serious concerns about the move.
Some excerpts
Local transit unions in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area are calling on the Doug Ford government not to push forward with its plan to harmonize fares across the region, saying they have serious concerns about the move.
Officials have said there have been early discussions about what the new fare structure might look like, including the possibility of a zoned system in which riders might pay based on how far they travel, rather than a single flat fare.
ATU and its locals called Bill 98 an “unprecedented provincial takeover of municipal transit, with no enforceable protections for service levels, fare revenue, or worker rights.”
In the letter, the unions pointed out that at the TTC, 24 cross-boundary corridors covering 50 routes could be handed to outside operators, without service legal agreements or accountability to the Toronto City Council, which could lead to contracting out work performed by ATU members for over a century.
The unions also claimed that transit agencies in Brampton, Hamilton and Mississauga are losing riders and revenue under One Fare, and Bill 98 would accelerate the trend. [
The unions are also asking that the province restore the TTC-GO co-fare, which was cancelled in 2019. The program provided riders with a $1.50 discount when transferring between GO and TTC. The unions argue that the co-fare was a “proven and effective regional fare integration tool.”
“If the province were serious about making transit work across the region, restoring the TTC-GO co-fare would be the clear and immediate first step.” [
Weird. Non-sensical.
I do get the concern over contracting out (though wait til self-driving buses are a thing.....and they will be)......but I digress....
There concern is easily addressed by legislating a single union for all transit workers in the GTA, The incumbent unions can agree, or the government will order a vote of the new combined membership with multi-round ballots if no union wins a clear majority on the first ballot.
You can also ask the government to upward harmonize the way wages/benefits, that they might not do, but you could get a deal that did that at the entry level and averages the rest, but no existing employee takes a pay cut, they are just red-lined.(pay frozen if they are making above the new rate) .
TwoWheelPoli
Active Member
WTF are those guys smoking? While there are undoubtedly some legitimate concerns over the province taking over control of transit fares in the GTHA, the idea of wanting to go back to the TTC-GO co-fare which costs $1.80 extra than the current One Fare program shoots down their credibility!GTHA transit unions call on Ford government to halt expansion of fare integration program
Local transit unions in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area are calling on the Doug Ford government not to push forward with its plan to harmonize fares across the region, saying they have serious concerns about the move.
Some excerpts
Local transit unions in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area are calling on the Doug Ford government not to push forward with its plan to harmonize fares across the region, saying they have serious concerns about the move.
Officials have said there have been early discussions about what the new fare structure might look like, including the possibility of a zoned system in which riders might pay based on how far they travel, rather than a single flat fare.
ATU and its locals called Bill 98 an “unprecedented provincial takeover of municipal transit, with no enforceable protections for service levels, fare revenue, or worker rights.”
In the letter, the unions pointed out that at the TTC, 24 cross-boundary corridors covering 50 routes could be handed to outside operators, without service legal agreements or accountability to the Toronto City Council, which could lead to contracting out work performed by ATU members for over a century.
The unions also claimed that transit agencies in Brampton, Hamilton and Mississauga are losing riders and revenue under One Fare, and Bill 98 would accelerate the trend. [
The unions are also asking that the province restore the TTC-GO co-fare, which was cancelled in 2019. The program provided riders with a $1.50 discount when transferring between GO and TTC. The unions argue that the co-fare was a “proven and effective regional fare integration tool.”
“If the province were serious about making transit work across the region, restoring the TTC-GO co-fare would be the clear and immediate first step.” [
afransen
Senior Member
Isn't this a crazy idea? This would give a rather inordinate amount of power to the union to exact whatever demands they wish.
Unions don't operate in the public interest. They are out for union leadership first and foremost, then as a consequence union membership. The public be damned.
Northern Light
Superstar
There are certainly risks.
But the point here is to address any legitimate concerns around contracting out to the lowest bidder and driving down wages.
Transit workers are reasonably well paid, but its not gratuitous given the cost of living. I can understand a concern over the province using the law to bust down pay.
There are lots of different ways to address that. But it certainly makes things like 'which transit authority delivers a route' an issue when the wage structures are materially divergent.
Overall, I find the Union line here to be tone deaf to the needs of riders and to read as knee-jerk opposition, more than constructive. But my instinctual answer to put the unions back on their heels by saying 'we can do this without busting down wages, and we'll guarantee it'.